P38 maneuverability data

[bolillo_loco]

I thought linburgh was over there to do some type of study on twin engined A/C and after he flew a few and came back with so much gas he then got switched to teaching fuel economy tactics.

and yes it seems to be the same note. the P-38 did poorly in the ETO because it fought the germans that had much better planes and pilots than the japanese. and the reason it did so well in the PTO was because the japanese planes only did 300mph and all of them were Ki 43 or zeros.

I could almost accept this except for the fact that in the MTO the P-38 fought those same german planes and pilots and not all the japanese planes were zeros. If you take the time to go to the airforce records that is online. it will list all the kills by people from ww2 it will state what enemy A/C was shot down. you will see quite a few of the late model japanese planes. at low altitude the 38 did not have the large speed advantage over these A/C as it did the zero or at high altitude.

[RAM]

 

Originally posted by bolillo_loco:
I could almost accept this except for the fact that in the MTO the P-38 fought those same german planes and pilots and not all the japanese planes were zeros. If you take the time to go to the airforce records that is online. it will list all the kills by people from ww2 it will state what enemy A/C was shot down. you will see quite a few of the late model japanese planes. at low altitude the 38 did not have the large speed advantage over these A/C as it did the zero or at high altitude.

See, you **REALLY** want me to dig for numbers of the German planes available in the MTO for the time the P38 started to be an effective weapon there?.

Hint: never were more than 250 planes.

Go figure.

[Dune]

After Oct 43, the 9th AF was relocated to England.  This left just the 12th and later the 15th AF's in Italy and the Med.

About 7 FG's.  Or a little over 200 planes.

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Col Dune
C.O. 352nd Fighter Group
"The Blue Nosed Bastards of Bodney"

"Credo quia absurdum est." (I believe it because it is unreasonable)
- The motto of the Republic of Baja Arizona

[RAM]

 

Originally posted by Dune:
After Oct 43, the 9th AF was relocated to England.  This left just the 12th and later the 15th AF's in Italy and the Med.

About 7 FG's.  Or a little over 200 planes.

over 200 P38s you mean...because there were too P51As, A-36s, Spitfires, Beaufighters, etc...not to count tbe heavy and tactical bombers. And at that time the Jagdwaffe on Italy was less than 150 planes.Even Jg77 was fitted for a while with C205s because there were no german planes available.

Sorry, no deal.


[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 01-21-2001).]

[Dune]

Nope.  There were never more than 90 -38's.  The other three FG's were the 31st, 52nd, 325th and 332nd.  The 31st and 52nd flew Spitfire V's until they recieved P-51B's in Apr 44.  The 325th and 332nd went from P-47's to -51B's in mid-summer 44.  Thats another 120.  (There were 2 FBG's, the 27th and 86th, but these were almost totally ground-attack.  These two groups had traded in their A-36A's for P-47's in May 43)  So, in pure FG's a little over 200 fighters.  

Sorry, no deal.

------------------
Col Dune
C.O. 352nd Fighter Group
"The Blue Nosed Bastards of Bodney"

"Credo quia absurdum est." (I believe it because it is unreasonable)
- The motto of the Republic of Baja Arizona

[Jimdandy]

 

Originally posted by bolillo_loco:


...If you take the time to go to the airforce records that is online. it will list all the kills by people from ww2 it will state what enemy A/C was shot down....

I would love to look at those records. I have two friends that were Marine Corps pilots in WWII. Both flew the F4U. I've always wanted to look at there records. Could you direct me to the sites. Even just point me in the right direction.

Thanks for any help you can give.



[This message has been edited by Jimdandy (edited 01-21-2001).]

[tshred]

Preach on brother Cit! Some very interesting reading indeed.

I still say only 'real men' fly the P38, 'specially knowing it isn't performing they way it should be  

ohoh, I feel a flaming coming with that last statement.......

ts

[funked]

I thought an FG had about 50 fighters?

[Dune]

Nope.  3 Squadrons of anywhere from 12 to 16 at full strength.  Add in a few HQ staff and you could probably say the average was around 40 or so.  

But the HQ rarely flew and FG's rarely put all their planes in the air.

------------------
Col Dune
C.O. 352nd Fighter Group
"The Blue Nosed Bastards of Bodney"

"Credo quia absurdum est." (I believe it because it is unreasonable)
- The motto of the Republic of Baja Arizona

[funked]

nm

[This message has been edited by funked (edited 01-22-2001).]

[BBGunn]

I notice some folks try to 'win' the bulletin board argument with one liners etc without really doing any research-that's their style I guess but there is great deal of history behind the P38 as well as other AC.  If you ignor history then you screw up the future.

[Glasses]

 So if you whine about the 38 no flames and if youwhine about the Luftwaffe you're called a Luftwaffe whiner...I mean c'mon what kind of biased crap is this. :-p

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Glasses---I may have 4 eyes ,but you only have one wing.

[M.C.202]

RAM said:
> Even Jg77 was fitted for a while with C205s because there were no german planes available.


So they had a better plane for a while :-)


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M.C.202
Dino in Reno

[bolillo_loco]

Jim dandy, I came accross some type of airforce web site that listed anybody who shot down an a/c. it listed the date and enemy a/c shot down. I delete my bookmarks regularly. I do not remember if I got the ulr here or in a search. I will try and find it again.

[Jigster]

 

Originally posted by RAM:
See, you **REALLY** want me to dig for numbers of the German planes available in the MTO for the time the P38 started to be an effective weapon there?.

Hint: never were more than 250 planes.

Go figure.

RAM, gimme a bit but I'll pull some figures for you.

Most of the engagments of the P-38 squadrons vs the LW were at an enormous disadvantage (whether you want to include Africa or not makes little difference, numbers were approx. the same)

Usual was P-38 one squadron of 16 planes (sometimes less for one reason or another) vs 30 or so LW planes, the majority G6's and mixed-matched FW models, along with whatever the Italians could contribute for a given operation. I've heard many times this was because P-38 squadrons appeared to the LW ground controllers as a bomber formation on radar, so while there may not of been that many LW fighters in the theatre they nearly always showed up in force when engaging the 38s expecting to intercept bombers. Couple this with the face that mission were generally limited to lower altitudes in the Medd. so the flight looked even more like a bomber formation.

It's not quite as simple as it looks, the Allies did things alot differently in the Medd. (as did the LW). While the LW did practice mass scramble for bomber intercept most of the US squadrons went out in small numbers for individual objects, nothing like what was practiced over the rest of Europe.

If you search around you'll see the LW in the Medd. may of not had large numbers but they were at least coordinated to make the most of what they had, and that some of the allied pilots did suprisingly well considering what they were flying and what they were up against, as well as the LW for that matter.

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33rd FW www.33rd.org

[This message has been edited by Jigster (edited 01-22-2001).]