External Views in the MA?

[moot]

Let's all play poker with our cards facing the wrong way!

[Dragdad]

I hardly equate external views to playing poker with cards facing the wrong way. There is no unfair advantage to externals, and that is proven everytime I get shot down in the DA by someone using internal views only. No one is advocating that everyone be forced to use external view. Actually, I'm advocating that everyone has a choice in the MA, the same as in the DA. As it is, I am forced to use internals in the MA. If you dont like the gamey feel, then dont use F3. I guarantee, as much as you guys play the game, I'm never going to be a shoot-down threat to you, even if I'm using external views.
Anyways, I'm done arguing the point.

Albeit very realistic, it's still a game. (ooooch, I said it again)

[pengu146]

See, the problem with that is that this is a WWII Combat Flight Simulator.  It's supposed to be as realistic as humanly possible in a video game.  I don't live and breathe this game, but when I play, I play because it's realistic.  I could go play a game like Blazing Angels on my PS3, but I'm not a fan of the gamey feel of it.  Sure it's fun sometimes, but I'm much too into aviation to deal with it all the time.

    Hey if you don't like that ps3 that much i'll take it.

[Cthulhu]

The unique appeal of AH is that it is so realistic. Many of us are not just gamers, but history buffs and aviation enthusiasts who want to relive as closely as possible the exploits we could only read about as kids. This may sound corney, being "just" a game, but many of us want the experience to be as realistic as possible. This is what sets AH apart from most other online games. The vast majority of us will never have the money to own one of these rare birds, let alone fly one, and none of us can make the near 70-year trip back in time to experience "real" combat (along with the very "real" consequences" of failure). What we can do however is go online and test our mettle against other people with a similar facination for these old "MuscleCars of the Air". It's the realism that makes AH challenging. That's what makes the game satisfying, that's the reason people stick with it for years, and that's where HiTech got it right.

Personally I feel the term game is a misnomer. Pac Man was a game, Blazing Angels is a game. AH is a simulation.

[ink]

Realistic????   

not even close, ya better than console games but still far from realistic, and i really don't care who i offend saying this.

you want realistic try Targetware if you fly only AH bet you cant fly there planes!!(without a lot of practice)
AH is great because its not too realistic but yet has a sense of realism, a very good balance between the two. 

[Cthulhu]

I know what you're saying ink, and I can't say I disagree with you. AH has about the extent of realism that could be included and still be fun (I don't wanna have to jack with cowling flaps when I play, do you?). My comments had more to do with the flight characteristics of the planes and the pilot's physical/emotional experience. I agree, AH has struck a very good balance between realism and fun. I believe that as far as modeling all the visceral aspects of air combat, those significant parts that immerse you in the simulation, HT has done a fine job.

[DaddyAck]

I like the complex management in other sims, but then again I fly Bf.109s almost exclusively wich pretty much manages it's own fuel mixture and RPM.  Just leaves me to watch my engine heat, wich is not that hard.  (yeah I fly IL2)

But I agree, this sim is a good mixture of realism and concessions to realism to allow for more simplified control schemes and more attention to the tactics themselves. HTC <S> for a job well done. 

[Ghosth]

Dragdad, sir not trying to put you down but there are a couple of things about your statement that I have issues with.

(Snippage  ...........There is no unfair advantage to externals, and that is proven everytime I get shot down in the DA by someone using internal views only. No one is advocating that everyone be forced to use external view. Actually, I'm advocating that everyone has a choice in the MA, the same as in the DA. ................... End snippage)

Just because you can be shot down by internal view use only does not prove the point that there is no advantage to external view.
In fact a strong case can be made showing the opposite to be true.

External views are on in the TA/DA as a teaching aid. There are some maneuvers that it is just hard to get a feel for, without being able to turn smoke on and watching it from the outside.

I'd really suggest that for 1 month you really leave the ext views off. Work on truly mastering the internal views.
Yes its a lot harder, but once you climb that mountain you are up there in the high air with everyone else who has done so.
Truly it changes your perspective.

As for choice in the MA, its a realism thing, most of us would like to see MORE realism in the mains not less.
So you see its a move in the wrong direction. And one that rubs against the grain of a lot of people.
Its not that we are purists, or snobs. Its just that we are very emotionally attached to all this.
And someone wanting to "lower the bar" that we climbed so hard to meet. Well it just seems to devalue the experience.
Spend some time climbing the mountain and I think you'll see what I mean.

[colmbo]

you want realistic try Targetware if you fly only AH bet you cant fly there planes!!

Now that is some funny stuff.

TW planes are "hard" to fly because the FM is so outlandishly unrealistic at least in regards to the ground handling.  I've flown T-6s, a Mustang, B-17 and B-24 (type rated).  It took me about 5 minutes to realize TW has a long way to go...sad because they do have some good ideas.

[ink]

Now that is some funny stuff.

TW planes are "hard" to fly because the FM is so outlandishly unrealistic at least in regards to the ground handling.  I've flown T-6s, a Mustang, B-17 and B-24 (type rated).  It took me about 5 minutes to realize TW has a long way to go...sad because they do have some good ideas.

i don't know why TW  is so hard to fly when i tried it, i just kept crashing

it sounds like you have flown for real? it this correct? if so you are lucky i would so love to fly a real plane, but yet you will never see me in a commercial jet liner!
 but i would love to go to Cali and do the combat flight school!!!!

[moot]

I know what you're saying ink, and I can't say I disagree with you. AH has about the extent of realism that could be included and still be fun (I don't wanna have to jack with cowling flaps when I play, do you?). My comments had more to do with the flight characteristics of the planes and the pilot's physical/emotional experience. I agree, AH has struck a very good balance between realism and fun. I believe that as far as modeling all the visceral aspects of air combat, those significant parts that immerse you in the simulation, HT has done a fine job.

Yep, "Combat", not "accounting".

[Larry]

I hardly equate external views to playing poker with cards facing the wrong way. There is no unfair advantage to externals, and that is proven everytime I get shot down in the DA by someone using internal views only.

Yea youre right.......

[moot]

That, or anytime there's a shot blinded by the cockpit.

[dentin]

I realize I'm probably irritating more than my share of purists, but I would sure love to have external views in fighters in the main. I apologize if anyone is offended by this suggestion, but I pay my 15 bucks too, and would love to play in the main arenas with this view. I came up in 8-player, and just have more fun with externals. I'm in the DA mostly, but I like the main as well.

Anyways, not trying to ruffle feathers, but I figured I'd voice my opinion.

DD

I agree with ya..all the arenas should offer the option.    P.S. I remember you from 8 player..."Ye Olde Shooting GAllery"..`twas great times.




 

[BarryBD]

Maybe, there is a halfway in this...

2 LW MA's, why not allow it in 1 of the two?

I never use external...  Not even in TA or DA,

I tape my flights and look at them afterwards... externally then yes.

Although, I fully understand what Ghosth and Cthulhu are saying.  That's why I play.  You won't see me in an arena with ext. views.

However, I do understand that there are a lot of "console players" (not a negative name ) that would play this sim, and can't (or don't enjoy it as much) because they are used to the ext. views on their PS3, Xbox, or whatever console...