Drank the glock-aid

[LTARGlok]

As for the slide release and the mag release being small. There is a way around this..two ways really. For the slide release as pyro suggested simply rack the slide during the reload process rather than pressing the slide release. This is a better habit to get into anyways, because when the gun is dirty and you use the slide release there are times the slide will not move all the way forward.

Glocks are well known for functioning just fine even when extremely dirty.   Your reasoning here has absolutely no hard basis in fact, in my opinion.  And any responsible gun owner keeps their gun cleaned and well lubricated.

In my opinion this is still a workaround.   And one that can be easily avoided with a minor upgrade to the gun.

As for the mag release, Glock themselves make a longer model that is easier to use.   That is a Glock part that one can readily obtain from dealers, and install.  The fact that Glock makes a longer mag release button shows that there is indeed a market for such a product.

Here is a photo of my Glock 17, showing both the ARO-TEK slide release button, as well as Glock's own longer mag release button installed:





Note that I opted to buy the slide release in a standard blued finish, rather than the bright stainless option the other custom gun that I posted earlier had on it.

Here is another photo showing the super recoil absorbing recoil guide and spring system that I added to my Glock.   It actually uses a total of 3 springs to further absorb recoil, as there is also a third one INSIDE the actual guide rod assembly. 





Finally, here is an overall photo of the gun:

You will have to forgive the quality.

The only problem I see here with the quality of your photos is that they are very badly out of focus.   The exposure itself looks fine.  If your camera has a macro mode, then you should be able to easily correct this with a little practice in using it.   Now if your camera is older and does not have a macro mode with a manual focusing option, then perhaps it is time to consider an upgrade to a new camera.

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[Masherbrum]

Ah, put you are not paying attention here.   I did not mention some time of handgun target type competition like the Olympic International style events, or the NRA's Bullseye type competitions, which are both simply about skill and accuracy.   People use guns specifically designed to just accurately punch holes in paper for those types of target shooting events.

Practical Pistol is about combat shooting.  It is designed specifically to improve combat skills.   You even have to use ammunition that meets specific power ratings.  Now there are many subcategories within Practical Pistol.   They can range from only allowing pistols that are exactly as they came from the factory, without any changes at all, to the OPEN category, where just about anything goes.

So technology developed for Practical style competition most definitely can be useful for real world self-defense.

You would seem to argue that handgun technology remain static, and not advance at all.

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Why are trying to explain this to me?   You are now backpedaling and playing the "semantics game".    Again, "Competition shooting" and "I bought a handgun that my wife and I can use" are two ENTIRELY different things.   

[Strip]

There are many forms of shooting that require a normal conceal carry gun. My uncle used to compete with a P7 in IPSC and IDPA. When he got done shooting he would reload the hollow points and pull his shirt out. He still carries it with his CC permit. A few of our friends also shoot there CC guns in competions.

IMHO There are ways CC and competion can coexist

Strip

[LTARGlok]

Thanks Guys -

the g19 is brand new (I think gen 3 frame with the rail for accessory mounts).  I'm not familiar enough with the pistol yet to quite understand what you mean when you say "rack the slide during reload".   After the last shot, the slide stays back.  I was under the impression the only way to release the slide after putting in a new magazine was to press the slide release.  Can the slide be racked (farther back) when its in the open position?

I don't plan on tricking it out with all sorts of accessories.  I'll put night sights on it, and maybe a tactical light on the rail.  I'm still up in the air on the light.  I prefer to keep it simple.  In a stressed situation, the less crap to worry about the better.

The most life saving accessory one can get is a Crimson Trace Laser, which requires no extra switches of any kind to be flipped in order to activate.   I managed to buy mine for only $169.95, which is no more expensive than what a lot of pistol flashlights cost.

You will be able to shoot far faster and with greater accuracy at night with a laser, than you will with any traditional type of sight.   And since the Crimson Trace attaches to your grip, you can still add a flashlight to your accessory rail too, if you so desire.

The Crimson Trace actually enhances the feel of the Glock grip also, in my opinion.

http://www.crimsontrace.com/

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[LTARGlok]

Why are trying to explain this to me?   You are now backpedaling and playing the "semantics game".    Again, "Competition shooting" and "I bought a handgun that my wife and I can use" are two ENTIRELY different things.   

I will try my best to make my point as clear as possible for you, so that there is no further misunderstanding within our conversation.

My Glock is a COMBAT pistol.  It is designed for one purpose only:  To delivery deadly powerful bullets quickly and accurately in a COMBAT situation.   It is NOT a competition gun.

Practical Pistol shooting is COMBAT type shooting.   Advances in technology developed for that sort of competition shooting are certainly applicable to self-defense pistols also.   Not all competition shooting is the same.   If you were a marksman who had actually participated in any of these different types of competitions that I described ( as I have ), you would be aware of these major differences.

To install firearm enhancements like better controls, enhanced barrels, or improved recoil springs is not tricking a gun out or making it a "ricer's gun", as some have said here.   It is simply using the latest gun technology to improve the performance of the weapon.

If you and others want to shoot plain factory guns, that is perfectly fine with me.   But don't any of you here claim that such enhancements are somehow bogus for personal defense weapons, or only belong on firearms meant for competition.

[BBBB]

While all of this is true, it is also true that it takes more time and effort than just using the slide release button.

It take no more effort for me to release the slide, than it does to press the magazine eject button.   In fact, probably less effort.

And since my left hand is busy inserting the new mag, I can ready my thumb over the slide release, so that the instant the mag is inserted, the slide will go forward and reload the gun.

Now if someone does not have a very well coordinated thumb, then I suppose this other technique would be better. 

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 That is all fine and well in theory, but all of that goes out the window when bullets are flying past your head. You shoot with both hands I assume. It is no faster it hit the slide release than it is to continue your hands already in action upward movement to reach up and rack the slide. This pretty much guarantees the weapon will be ready to fire.

 In the past I have had Glocks that were dirty that the slide did not move all the way forward after hitting the slide release. The "extra step" of racking the slide further back and letting it go ensures that the slide will be full forward and seated.

 In truth this is not really an extra step and with practice this move and the move I make to strip empty mags from my auto pistols goes a long way towards ensuring your weapon will function, clean, dirty, wet, muddy, bloody, no matter the condition. As I said later on tonight I will take some photos of my hand movements doing these actions so you can better understand what I am saying here.

[BBBB]

Glocks are well known for functioning just fine even when extremely dirty.   Your reasoning here has absolutely no hard basis in fact, in my opinion.  And any responsible gun owner keeps their gun cleaned and well lubricated.

In my opinion this is still a workaround.   And one that can be easily avoided with a minor upgrade to the gun.

 No offense, but where I come from the only guys that hang all that crap and make all those changes to their weapons are the lazy types that think all those CDI points are going to make them shoot better. In reality the only true way to become better is though training.

 What are you going to do when you find yourself on the ground fighting for your life, your gun possibly covered in mud, dirt or blood (or any combination of the three)? Do you think simply pressing the slide release is going to guarantee your weapon is going to go bang when you pull the trigger after the reload?

 The things you do at the range are a breeze. You may never have to deal with such a situation in your life time, but what if you do? In those types of situation things never work flawlessly. I have read the AARs from hundreds of shootings and nothing ever goes right or works like clock work.

 You have to have an extended slide release, extended mag release and a laser to make you shoot better. You have to build the gun around you. That is thinking backwards. I can pick up a Glock, ANY Glock and shoot circles around you because of better training. Not because of neat gadgets and gizmo's. Hopefully the day will come when you wake up and realize you don't need all that crap to help you shoot better, all you need is to train better. Just an observation is all.

[Mini D]

My Glock is a COMBAT pistol.  It is designed for one purpose only:  To delivery deadly powerful bullets quickly and accurately in a COMBAT situation.   It is NOT a competition gun.

Your gun is for show, not combat.

[Masherbrum]

I will try my best to make my point as clear as possible for you, so that there is no further misunderstanding within our conversation.

My Glock is a COMBAT pistol.  It is designed for one purpose only:  To delivery deadly powerful bullets quickly and accurately in a COMBAT situation.   It is NOT a competition gun.

Practical Pistol shooting is COMBAT type shooting.   Advances in technology developed for that sort of competition shooting are certainly applicable to self-defense pistols also.   Not all competition shooting is the same.   If you were a marksman who had actually participated in any of these different types of competitions that I described ( as I have ), you would be aware of these major differences.

To install firearm enhancements like better controls, enhanced barrels, or improved recoil springs is not tricking a gun out or making it a "ricer's gun", as some have said here.   It is simply using the latest gun technology to improve the performance of the weapon.

If you and others want to shoot plain factory guns, that is perfectly fine with me.   But don't any of you here claim that such enhancements are somehow bogus for personal defense weapons, or only belong on firearms meant for competition.

I have a USP 45 that is JUST AS "reliable" as your Glock.    ALL handguns are meant for the "potential use of deadly force".   

Again, you are trying to justify the "greatness of modding a gun".    Lasers look cool, but I'm sorry, I don't need a laser to hit my target.   A ported barrel vs standard barrel is a straw-man argument at best.    You attempting "to sound superior" because you have a laser on a pistol is laughable at best.   My USP fits my hands, I didn't need to mod anything.   I "combat rack" as well and rarely use the magazine release.   If you are in possession of a "Combat pistol", you should know this.   

BBBB, you and I are starting to mend the fence.   Your posts are dead on.   

[Toad]

<Plunks down the cooler, unfolds the chair, tosses a few shrimp on the barbie>

Who'd a thunk it? Purse fight in a pistol thread.

[GtoRA2]

The most life saving accessory one can get is a Crimson Trace Laser, which requires no extra switches of any kind to be flipped in order to activate.   I managed to buy mine for only $169.95, which is no more expensive than what a lot of pistol flashlights cost.

You will be able to shoot far faster and with greater accuracy at night with a laser, than you will with any traditional type of sight.   And since the Crimson Trace attaches to your grip, you can still add a flashlight to your accessory rail too, if you so desire.

The Crimson Trace actually enhances the feel of the Glock grip also, in my opinion.

http://www.crimsontrace.com/

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You read tons of Guns and ammo right?

My Glock is a COMBAT pistol.  It is designed for one purpose only:  To delivery deadly powerful bullets quickly and accurately in a COMBAT situation.   It is NOT a competition gun.

I love this line, I may make it my sig, for some reason it just makes me giggle. 

It may be designed for combat, but with all the dodads on it, it sure is good for getting you laughed at on the boards. 


ok putting the purse away

[BBBB]

To install firearm enhancements like better controls, enhanced barrels, or improved recoil springs is not tricking a gun out or making it a "ricer's gun", as some have said here.   It is simply using the latest gun technology to improve the performance of the weapon.

 This is a quote of an article written by a man named Skip Gochenour for the National Tactical Invitational news letter. I am posting it here because in this case it is very relevant to the conversation.

WARRIORS AND EXPERTS NEVER CHANGE

Experts on gizmos and gadgets have always existed alongside warriors. The former enjoy promoting themselves to their audience by explaining their knowledge of the latest technology, gizmo or gadget will provide the means of prevailing in an encounter. The latter understands that a plan, driven by boundless will and spirit, augmented by skillful use of a chosen and practiced weapons systems is superior to any expert's new toy.

DAVID AND GOLIATH

Sunday school tells us of the boy David who slew the giant Goliath with a slingshot. The real story is far more interesting and reveals a relevant lesson. The historical David was a warrior of great personal skill and courage. Always under manned and under gunned, he used his most dangerous weapon, (his mind), and his most powerful weapon, (his will and spirit) to defeat more powerful enemies, throughout his long career. But first there was Goliath.

Goliath, a Philistine, was over seven feet tall. Some scholars believe that Philistines were a Germanic tribe that made a wrong turn. Philistines knew how to make weapons of iron. All other groups in the area had bronze weapons. This included the army of Saul. Goliath's suit of mail (body armor) weighed over 100 pounds. The iron point of his spear weighed over 12.5 pounds. The army of Saul and the Philistines found themselves on facing mountainsides with a valley between them. As was the custom of the time, each family provided supplies to serving family members. David, the youngest, was sent with provisions for his three enlisted brothers. Upon arriving he witnessed Goliath descend to the valley and challenge anyone to engage him in personal combat with the result of the fight determining the outcome of the battle. All in Saul's army, including the weapons experts were afraid. Astonished, David asked how long this insulting behavior had gone on. He was told, morning and evening for 40 days. David was infuriated. He told Saul that no man of worth would put up with such conduct and that he would fight Goliath. Saul reminded him that he was a boy and a Shepherd and that Goliath had been a trained fighter since his youth, which was long past. David noted that as a Shepherd he had alone faced lions and bears that had tried to pilfer the herd. Goliath could be no more dangerous.

Saul sent for his experts who promptly dressed David in a suit of mail, helmet, metal shin guards, sword and shield. He was given all sorts of advice on how to use the latest weapons. After giving them a try, he cast them aside, commenting that he had not proven himself with them. He went to a streambed and carefully selected five round smooth stones for his sling. The sling was an important weapon from the Bronze Age until the 17th Century, even among the world’s armies. With much practice a slinger could deliver accurate fire at today's moderate rifle ranges. Very accurate fire could be delivered at handgun ranges. Dressed in ordinary clothing and carrying a plainly visible staff, David concealed his sling in his hand. He moved into the valley and called out a challenge to Goliath. Goliath was predictably insulting, commenting that he was demeaned that a boy with a stick was sent to fight him. Goliath moved to meet David. Goliath was wearing armor, a sword, and a spear for thrusting. Seeing David's staff, Goliath sent his shield carrier on ahead. He fell for part one of David's tactical plan. David quickly closed the distance between himself and Goliath to where he was confident of his accuracy. He prepared his sling, threw the stone and struck Goliath in the forehead. Goliath fell to the ground. Rapidly covering the remaining distance, David took Goliath's own sword and severed the giant's head. David prevailed because he executed his plan with audacity, will, and determination. By constant training, he knew how to employ and effectively use his chosen weapons system. David was not seduced by the experts on gizmos and gadgets who display their lack of self confidence by believing that items are more important than skill, training, will, and spirit.

David will not be at N.T.I.. There will be many men just like him, testing himself. Come join them and learn to be like David!

 Glock, while I am sure you could tell us about all the latest laser and flashlight combos for your gun and how adding another inch to a Glock 26 is still more practical than using a Glock 19 instead, this guy asked for help on how to solve what is most defiantly a training issue. A problem that can be fixed for free, without him having to buy a six dollar part and having it installed for him by a gun smith that will go on to charge him 50 dollars.

 By definition a funny car is a car, but I bet you wont ever see one in a grocery store parking lot, picking up the groceries. The word I am thinking about here is "suitability". Just because you can do something, doesn't mean it is in your best interest to do so.

 Modas, I got home late. I will take the photos before work in the morning and post them when I get to work. Cheers.

[LTARGlok]

I can pick up a Glock, ANY Glock and shoot circles around you because of better training. Not because of neat gadgets and gizmo's. Hopefully the day will come when you wake up and realize you don't need all that crap to help you shoot better, all you need is to train better. Just an observation is all.

Just who is acting superior here now, with your boast-ful statements that you have made here???   You don't know a thing about me personally BBBB, yet you so forcefully claim here that you can shoot circles around me.   Well, your statement is actually probably most very true, since your groups would indeed most likely be CIRCLES around the much tighter groups that I would shoot.

For your info, I started shooting handguns at 15 years old.  I've probably fired far more handgun rounds in .22 LR, .380 Auto, .38 Special, 9mm, .357 magnum, .40 S&W, and .45 Auto over the last 40 years than you will possibly ever dream of shooting.  By 18, I was rated Expert in NRA Bullseye Competition, and my family wanted me to seriously pursue the sport.   And you know why?   Because not one, but TWO cousins on my father's side of the family had won National Bullseye Pistol Championships at Camp Perry.   However, I started college and got involved in doing other things in life besides shooting.

I learned pistol shooting from my cousins and father, and also got tips from Bob Chow, who also gunsmithed the Bullseye pistols that I competed with.   Bob was a US Olympic team competitor in rapid fire pistol, and also a friend of my cousins.  I'm sure that you got much better training when you first learned pistol marksmanship.

Anyway, you can keep both your boasts and also all of your advice to yourself.   I respect the opinions of a great many other pistol shooters, but I certainly don't respect your opinions that you have expressed here.

To Modas:  Forget everything that I have said earlier to you in this thread, as I obviously don't know a single stupid thing about handguns.   Tell yourself that there is nothing at all wrong with the slide release on the Glock, and that there is no need to be concerned at all about it.   You were most likely dreaming when you thought that it was difficult to operate.   All you need to do is to simply train more with your Glock, and the slide release will then become much easier for you to use.

P.S. -- You know BBBB, I never bragged in any of my earlier posts in this thread about being a great shot.   Nor did I belittle anyone for not doing anything to enhance their guns, the way that you and others have so unfairly criticized me here in this thread.   I only shared my experience with how I've customized my Glock, as I thought that fellow firearms enthusiasts might be interested in what I've done with it.  Obviously, I was very wrong about the type of folks that frequent this forum.

P.P.S  -- I really have nothing further to say to you BBBB, ..........   ( I had to remove the rest of this sentence, since it most likely violated forum rules )

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[LTARGlok]

this guy asked for help on how to solve what is most defiantly a training issue. A problem that can be fixed for free, without him having to buy a six dollar part and having it installed for him by a gun smith that will go on to charge him 50 dollars.

I believe that he commented that the slide release was very small, and thus difficult to operate.   I then explained that he could replace it with a much larger and more ergonomic release, that would be far easier to use.   But then again, I am an idiot that knows absolutely nothing about handguns, and cannot shoot worth a lick.   You, in comparison, know absolutely everything.

Modas, I got home late. I will take the photos before work in the morning and post them when I get to work. Cheers.

Let's hope that you get some training real soon on how to properly use your camera, and that you are able to post some photos that are not so extremely blurred as the earlier ones that you posted.   

[lazs2]

the best lifesaving device you can get for any gun is a crap load of ammo.

take said crap load of ammo out and go practice with it..

Practice point shooting.. go shoot jacks and gophers on the run with some friends with it.   draw and fire at stuff from 7 yards and 25 yards and then try some 100 and 200 yard shots..   limp wrist the gun and figure out how to get it unjammed... shoot enough and you will get to do real jam exercises with semi autos.

If after all that you think you need a buck rogers laser and an extra inch of barrel.. so be it.

If can't feel confident with every gun you own.. get rid of some or get some more practice.

I don't care if it is my PPK in .32 or makarov or 4 inch 44 redhawk mag or 340PD 12 ounce 357 or 45 kimber or 45 cz.. they all work.. I trust em all to a large  extent.   the revolvers more tho... They are all "custom" in that they have grips that work for me (grips are those things guns used to have for your hands for you glock guys).  They have the sights I find useful.. none have laser sights tho.. I learned how to point shoot a long time ago.

lazs