First he was against it, now he supports it..

[Jackal1]

I mentioned socialism..  you left out socialism.

lazs

............And Beetless. Don`t forget Beetless. Can`t leave out the humorous parts.

[Hap]

Flip flop, pip pop.

I've changed my mind about lots of things over my lifetime.

Darn good thing too.

[Napoleon II]

Lazs

??

I think you focus too much on gasoline prices. The oil crisis facing the western world goes much deeper. It's not about "taxes" or "socialism", or how different countries raise taxes. To register a car in California costs an amount of money that could pay for 30,000 miles worth of fuel, so if the pump price of gas is lower than somewhere else, the money is clawed back in other ways.

What you seem to overlook is that gas for cars is represents less than 25% of our oil needs. A much higher proportion is needed for electricity generation and production of plastics.

I have no problem with "alternatives"  they will happen and they may be expensive but... Where we differ is that you believe that the "alternatives" can only be found by the government and taxation.  I believe that the market will, and should be, the ones to find it.

Yeah, you're right. Let's wait until oil hits $200/bbl (in the next 5 years) and maybe then some nuclear powerplants will start growing out of the soil all by themselves, as if by magic.

[Holden McGroin]

What you seem to overlook is that gas for cars is represents less than 25% of our oil needs. A much higher proportion is needed for electricity generation and production of plastics.

Petroleum: 42%
Coal : 24%
Natural Gas 20%
Nuclear 8%
Hydro: 2%
Wind, Solar, etc: 2%

Coal is about 50% of the electrical grid production.

Yeah, you're right. Let's wait until oil hits $200/bbl (in the next 5 years) and maybe then some nuclear powerplants will start growing out of the soil all by themselves, as if by magic.

When alternatives are profitable, alternatives will be produced.

Wind is a profitable business now, (due to subsidies) and is the fastest growing segment of electrical production.  I work for the largest wind producer in the world, and we are going to add about 3000 MW installed capacity to the US grid per yer for the foreseeable future.

Governments can help with subsidies, but they more often hurt by excessive regulation.  (see nuclear)

[Toad]

I work for the largest wind producer in the world, and we are going to add about 3000 MW installed capacity to the US grid per yer for the foreseeable future.

  You guys are in trouble now. Apparently you're supposed to wait until oil hits $200/bbl.  I think you should link your execs to Beet's posts.

[Jackal1]

Don`t worry Toad. If it involves the Evil U.S. Empire, Beetless will seek them out.

[lazs2]

beet.. I am not focusing on cars..  oil will be replaced or suplemented as the demand grows.. Holden pretty much laid it out.   Oil needs to go higher so that it becomes profitable to come up with alternatives.   Nukes?   sure.. but it is the government who has been causing them to not be built.. giving albore and democrats money .. they ones who stopped them in the first place.. is no answer.

I am all for huge tax breaks for anyone who wants to develop new energy sources.. for nukes...for oil exploration... wind, solar.. whatever...Hell.. I am for huge tax breaks for anyone for anything.   

and that is the difference.. you see government as the solution while I see it as the problem.

lazs

[Xargos]

This has nothinig to do with C02 emissions into the atmosphere

When did I ever say anything about CO2 emissions?  There are volcanoes underwater and they can melt glaciers, which some fanatics try to use as proof that the sky is falling.

[Jackal1]

When did I ever say anything about CO2 emissions?  There are volcanoes underwater and they can melt glaciers, which some fanatics try to use as proof that the sky is falling.

Don`t get Angus stirred up. He doesn`t believe there is underwater volcanoes......or hardly anything Al baby didn`t put forth in his cartoon carnival.

[Nashwan]

What you seem to overlook is that gas for cars is represents less than 25% of our oil needs. A much higher proportion is needed for electricity generation and production of plastics.

About 45% of US oil consumption is gasoline, nearly all of it for motor vehicles. 30% is diesel and similar oils, used for trucks, jet aircraft and home heating. 5% is heavy fuel oil used for ships and power generation, and the final 20% covers all other uses like LPG, bitumen, lubricants and plastic feed stocks.

About 315,000 barrels of oil are used per day for electrical generation in the US. That's about 1.5% of total US consumption.