The defeat of fascism in WWII.

[Lumpy]

Does anyone actually believe fascism was defeated in WWII or that defeating fascism was actually a goal of the western allies?

[Lumpy]

Agh? 

You supported my argument that defeating fascism wasn't a goal for the western allies when you stated:

Tell me gScholtz, what design on world conquest did Franco or the other fascist states you mention have?

So in other words Germany's expansionism and aggression towards neighbouring nations were the chief motivating factors in the UK's war on Germany. Not that Germany was fascist.

[hammer]

What type of aircraft or vehicle is a "fascism"?   

[Lumpy]

Lol, yeah, perhaps this thread should be moved to the O' Club.

[Angus]

Maybe Skuzzy would be so kind to do that.
Anyway, my shot at it is that at least the French and the UK went to war against nazism which is an extreme form of fascism. It was mingled with old grudges, worries, and agression.
Then, the UK carried the banner when the lines were clearer.
The USA had no intention on any war against fascism, and were on the sideline while the UK fought for its survival. Even after the BoB, there was not much of pro-Brit direct aid from the USA. (I can explain this with some lines hard to swallow...for those from the USA that do not know)
When WW2 became a total war, it was basically Fascism vs the others.
The fascist were completely defeated in the war....but the idea lives, and some countries dally with the policy.
And the intardnet is also full with fascist speculants....

[Angus]

BTW, I did recommend a read in another thread, which was Martin Gilberts WW2. So it applies here also. A lot there, day-by-day about what happened. As well as the aftermath. The reckoning...
The book sometimes makes me sick, or depressed actually. Conclusion is that WW2 goes down in history as a disaster. Ugly....

[Rich46yo]

Has he responded to our opinions by saying we dont know what we are talking about yet?

If not then I'll wait. I'll bet Lumpy was President of his High School debating club.

[Angus]

Do not underestimate Lumpy. He has a sharp mind, and is a teaser by nature.
I have yet to see him make a slip on facts recently, while I have seen you do so.
Maybe he had just a few ales too many? Happens...

[Rich46yo]

Do not underestimate Lumpy. He has a sharp mind, and is a teaser by nature.
I have yet to see him make a slip on facts recently, while I have seen you do so.
Maybe he had just a few ales too many? Happens...

And what facts were those?

Thats the problem isnt it? Telling people they are wrong, and generally suck, without taking a position your ownself or even saying what it was that was said wrong? Yeah right, theres a sharpie for you.

[Bronk]

And what facts were those?

Thats the problem isnt it? Telling people they are wrong, and generally suck, without taking a position your ownself or even saying what it was that was said wrong? Yeah right, theres a sharpie for you.

Ask him is position on the waffen SS.

[E25280]

In a feeble attempt to get the topic back on track . . .

Does anyone actually believe fascism was defeated in WWII or that defeating fascism was actually a goal of the western allies?

Fascism is an idea, not a "thing."  Ideas rarely if ever truly die, as there is always someone somewhere clinging to it (even the stupid ideas).

I've never really thought the "defeat of fascism" was the goal -- if it had been, they would have done something against Franco, yes?  IMHO, to the allies, it was more about self-defense / self-preservation.  The big three in the Axis were clearly set on continental if not global domination, and therefore would have to be dealt with eventually. 

Thankfully, Britain carried on the struggle in the darkest times and therefore kept the door open.  Had they capitulated, IMO the isolationsts in the US would have prevailed, and the US would have learned to "do business with" a Nazi-dominated Europe rather than fight it.

[RRAM]

I'll repeat what I said in the other thread. Franco was not a Fascist, and his dictatorship was not fascist either. There were so many differences between fascism, Nazism, and the regime Franco implanted in Spain it would take us days to completelly debate them.

But I insist: Spain was not fascist at the time. The nearest thing to a fascist ideology present in spain would be that one of the Falange (quite some falangists were placed in quite influencial spots at the time; but the Falangist movement and ideology were disliked by Franco. The Falangist influence in Spain diminished very fast after the Civil War ended) and the Falange was FAR from being fascist anyway.

[Simaril]

Has he responded to our opinions by saying we dont know what we are talking about yet?

If not then I'll wait. I'll bet Lumpy was President of his High School debating club.

"Debate" implies that both sides are listening. Lumpy would have to have been the President of the Arguing Club.

And by the way, the very format of the question is ridiculous. Entire books have been written on the causes of WW2, and Lumpy is trolling for argument by pretending that there was only one cause.

Post after post, this guy is only stirring the pot. Next thing you know, he'll propose "Liberace was a closet family man", just to see what happens

[Yeager]

I think fascism would have been left alone if the countries espousing it had not waged aggressive war on neighboring peaceful nations.

[Charon]

The US and Britain rather favored fascism (for RAM -- fascist-flavored catholic nationalism) over communism during the Spanish Civil War. And the highly conservative in both countries actually admired Herr Hitler before 1939, again related to both his hard line on communism and the perception that he had turned around the German economy. (In fact, many of the programs he took credit for began under the social democrats and much of the rest was militarism and rearmament). There were fascist and fascist-like movements in both countries that while hardly dominant, were not insignificant.

It was even highly plausible that there could have been a negotiated peace between Britain and Germany after the fall of France, as Hitler expected, but for that pesky Churchill, in no small part. In the end, fascist regimes were seen as the greater of two evils and we made nice with Uncle Joe to get the Hun on the run.

Charon