Author Topic: Violent weekend in Chicago  (Read 1329 times)

Offline SteveBailey

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2409
Re: Violent weekend in Chicago
« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2008, 11:16:40 AM »
The idea of some of these yahoos having easy access to deadly force kinda scares me. At least now I can ID potential problems on sight alone.



Criminals can always buy guns.  Banning handguns did nothing to disarm bad guys, it merely made sheep of the law abiding public.

Offline Airhead

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3369
      • http://www.ouchytheclown.com
Re: Violent weekend in Chicago
« Reply #16 on: April 21, 2008, 11:32:24 AM »
I love the logic that can twist a "32 people shot in Chicago over the weekend" thread into a pro gun thread. It would be like using a "32 people die in auto accidents over the weekend" thread into an anti speed limit, anti seat belt thread.

Offline SteveBailey

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2409
Re: Violent weekend in Chicago
« Reply #17 on: April 21, 2008, 11:39:52 AM »
I love the logic that can twist a "32 people shot in Chicago over the weekend" thread into a pro gun thread. It would be like using a "32 people die in auto accidents over the weekend" thread into an anti speed limit, anti seat belt thread.

 You merely post to inflame and incite.  Do you ever actually have anything  thoughtful and pointed to say?

Offline Kaw1000

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1159
Re: Violent weekend in Chicago
« Reply #18 on: April 21, 2008, 11:47:12 AM »
Wow .....there are so manys shootings I got tired of reading them all....now thats alot of shootings.
See Rule# 5 on just about every thread!

Offline ROX

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2209
Re: Violent weekend in Chicago
« Reply #19 on: April 21, 2008, 11:47:17 AM »
I wish that newspapers & tv stations would run the gory, bloody, photos/film of the crime scenes where these gangbangers died.  Maybe if enough kids & gangbangers saw that they might go..."wow....that could be me".  And it probably WILL be some day.

Back in the 1930's newspapers ran photos of mafia hits.  It showed the horror of what happened to people who got involved in the rackets.  

Gun control?  These gangbangers would be using steak knives if left to no other weapon.



ROX

Offline Thruster

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 500
Re: Violent weekend in Chicago
« Reply #20 on: April 21, 2008, 11:49:40 AM »
I hear what your saying and understand, I'm kind of conflicted on the whole issue. But I tend to hold fairly unpopular opinions on most hot topics.

One cannot argue that if you do away with access to firearms, all things being equal, they will be over time less available to the criminal element. That means our kids are safer from stray bullets. A good thing.

But I can say I've had my day saved by having an equalizer close at hand. As have others. It's just that so many of us are legally able to do many potentially harmful things and we do so with frightening regularity. As arrogant as it seems, I'm good with having access to firearms, I'm just not sure how I feel about the collective you having that same access.

Education, tough licensing standards, public awareness, etc. are all good ideas but that means we have to trust that those elements be administered and policed effectively for them to work. I don't believe that will be the case.

One of the incidents involved a Kalashnikov. God knows how it was obtained but most likely not on the streets of Beirut. Probably started life as a perfectly legal sale properly documented and everything. Now it's evidence in a murder investigation. I can't help think there's a breakdown in the process somewhere. Fix the process and there should be no need for firearm prohibition.

I will say that were it not for some form of gun control I bet the areas where most of these incidents took place would quickly come to resemble the streets of Beirut, Mogadishu, or Mosul.

Offline SteveBailey

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2409
Re: Violent weekend in Chicago
« Reply #21 on: April 21, 2008, 12:15:02 PM »


One cannot argue that if you do away with access to firearms, all things being equal, they will be over time less available to the criminal element. That means our kids are safer from stray bullets. A good thing.


Handguns have been banned in Chicago for over 25 years.  Chicago has seen no decrease in gun violence as a result of the ban. So one could argue what you suggest, they'd just be wrong.

For instance, in Phoenix you can carry handguns openly pretty much all you want yet it has a lower murder rate than Chicago.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2008, 12:21:50 PM by SteveBailey »

Offline Thruster

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 500
Re: Violent weekend in Chicago
« Reply #22 on: April 21, 2008, 12:39:50 PM »

"Handguns have been banned in Chicago for over 25 years."
 
But they are available less than a mile from the city proper. There's nothing to argue, be it right or wrong, remove the retail aspect and the availability to the dirtbags declines.

Personally I prefer a different strategy but it would be predicated on a certain degree of official accountability. Sorry for the contradiction in therms.

Offline Airhead

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3369
      • http://www.ouchytheclown.com
Re: Violent weekend in Chicago
« Reply #23 on: April 21, 2008, 12:48:04 PM »
Gee Steve, out of the 32 people shot in Chicago over the weekend how many of them were NOT gang and/or drug related? One? How many were in the worst crime ridden areas of town? All of them?

I don't see how this is a gun control issue- it's more of a policing issue, a sentancing issue, and a social issue. That's my point, Steve- and if disagreeing with you "annoys" you then tough.

Offline Toad

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 18415
Re: Violent weekend in Chicago
« Reply #24 on: April 21, 2008, 12:58:14 PM »
Excuse the pun, but I think the entire US would get the best bang for the buck if we just declared defeat in the war on drugs, waved the white flag and put in a few drug aisles in the local liquor stores.

I doubt there's any denying that illegal drug sales are a root cause in all this inner city violence and a lot of suburban burlaries as well. Sort of reminds you of the old Elliot Ness "Untouchables", doesn't it? Lots of crime, lots of gang action and in the end the solution was to bow to the inevitable.

Time to legalize it, tax the hell out of it, prosecute as we do for alcohol related crime (IE: drunk driving, etc.) and let the brain dead have their way.

I tend to agree with Laz that there'll be no sudden overwhelming tsunami of drug addicts. We've had pretty much unresticted alcohol for decades and not everyone is a drunk. As for those that want to give away their lives to alcohol or drugs... we've never stopped them yet in any event.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Yeager

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10167
Re: Violent weekend in Chicago
« Reply #25 on: April 21, 2008, 01:35:36 PM »
Yes, but all you would achieve is giving the downtrodden another bullet to shoot at society and demand more reparations for slavery.  See!  whitey done went and gived our poor folk free drugs just to make it easy to keep them down!  Give us back our guns so as we can defend ouselfs  :rolleyes:
"If someone flips you the bird and you don't know it, does it still count?" - SLIMpkns

Offline Toad

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 18415
Re: Violent weekend in Chicago
« Reply #26 on: April 21, 2008, 01:51:23 PM »
I didn't say anything about free.  :)

I see this as a tax source the Dems can jack to the roof!
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline lazs2

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 24886
Re: Violent weekend in Chicago
« Reply #27 on: April 21, 2008, 02:39:56 PM »
If you tax drugs too much you defeat the purpose of making them legal.   the drug dealers will stay in business and the gang wars will continue.

As for guns being the problem?  why is it always in the areas where guns are banned that the most shootings occur?

Thruster.. I trust myself with handguns.. I also "trust" you with em.. Just like I trust you hurtling at me head on at 60mph in a two ton car almost every day.   You could kill me in a blink with one little flick of the wrist and your car.   

lazs

Offline Toad

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 18415
Re: Violent weekend in Chicago
« Reply #28 on: April 21, 2008, 03:04:56 PM »
You can easily tax drugs as much as cigarettes or alcohol.

It'd be the old bait and switch anyway. You start out low tax, put the dealers out of biz because once it is legal open competition sets in, you maintain penalties for possessing without the sacred tax stamp just like a liquor bottle or a pack of cigs. The buyers will prefer a brightly lit store with lots of choices to a dark back alley where they might get mugged.

You make it easy enough, you put the dealers out of business the same way we did with bootleggers.

After a while, you can raise taxes.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline indy007

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3294
Re: Violent weekend in Chicago
« Reply #29 on: April 21, 2008, 03:11:11 PM »
You can easily tax drugs as much as cigarettes or alcohol.

It'd be the old bait and switch anyway. You start out low tax, put the dealers out of biz because once it is legal open competition sets in, you maintain penalties for possessing without the sacred tax stamp just like a liquor bottle or a pack of cigs. The buyers will prefer a brightly lit store with lots of choices to a dark back alley where they might get mugged.

You make it easy enough, you put the dealers out of business the same way we did with bootleggers.

After a while, you can raise taxes.

That's why you drive to the Indian reservations.