E-fight training ?

[Noir]

Quick question to our experienced trainers...after basic training what kind of exercise would you do to your trainees so they realise their E state (dive, extend, climb back, etc), and just stop pointing their nose towards nearest Icon and HO ?

On another topic I think the bomb aiming crosshair should be disabled on TA, people I've trained tend to rely on it and make impossible drops instead of working on their approach speed and angle.

[Max]

Noir I'd suggest you get in touch with Badboy and spent some time with him. He helped me a lot with E fighting.

[Noir]

Call me Nuke 

I don't need training on this (I wish), I need tips on how to train other people....but your answer still applies, thx

[goober69]

i did not really understand or was not able to apply these concepts till just recently.
infact i don't know exactly when i had my ephiphany, and went "oh yea thats what it means".

i belive that understanding e fighting is a personal quest.
i have read and reread "in pursit". http://web.comhem.se/~u85627360/inpursuit.pdf

spent time with trainers.
spent time with squadies.
read a whole lot and posted a whole lot on these boards.

but i feel pretty good about my skill now, i also belive that strong acm skills will keep you alive until you can better judge an enemy's e state relative to yours.
learning when to pull hard and go angles and let up and keep your e is not an easy thing, but i would make suggestions (duel with someone) give them your opinions let them make their acm choices.

i think that correct acm choices lead to e-saving manuvers or either you quickly get on someones six and kill them.

expereince is its own teacher IMHO.

but i think combined with assigned reading, answering any questions you can and deuling with someone you can help them to get a good footing on a hard slope.

for what its worth....

.02

[Max]

Murdr has a pretty good write-up -
wwwnetaces.org > Learning to Fly > Advanced Flight Skills > Energy Management

[Bruv119]

get them to perfect flying up into a stall maintaining control.  Quite a few newer players who are trying to push too hard end up in a spin anyway. 

get them fighting upwards in a rope a dope situation.  Not only will their appreciation of how much energy they have get better they will feel more comfortable flying at slow speeds.

[Bruv119]

Whenever i see one of my guys following someone up im forever saying 

"don't let him rope you" 

[Noir]

the write up is pretty good, but I've thougt about it and I think the problem mostly lies in the fact that new players have trouble "feeling" where they are in the 3D environment, and I guess that can only be fixed with a lot of practice.

Maybe having the 3D environment filled with a XYZ grid like in some space games (ever played homeworld?) would give the trainee a better feeling of his speed, altitude etc. Its like when you are deep into the sea, you don't know at what Depth you really are, and what direction you are going towards.

Counterpart would be that trainees won't need to look at their instruments, and wont learn how to use them....

[Noir]

Whenever i see one of my guys following someone up im forever saying 

"don't let him rope you" 

Lol I say that all the time on range...."don't HO him, don't follow the rope !"

[BaldEagl]

Quite a few newer players who are trying to push too hard end up in a spin anyway.

I'm an old player and find myself doing that now while trying to get used to a new joystick.  I think I still don't have the scaleing right for this one but I pretty much knew I'd have an off month while I adjusted.

[Murdr]

Nuke, I integrate E discussion along the way at every opportunity, no matter what the topic is.  Even merge training, or basic maneuvers training, I will often give a running dialog of E observations. For instance the tightness of a turn, or the type of turn I see from one merge to the next, gives clues on how much energy the other guy is burning in relation to yours.  I'll mention things like that as I see it, and then prove the point by being able to make more verticle turns than the trainiee.  I really try to stress that E=maneuver options.  If you can bank just a tiny bit more E than the other guy over a series of 2 or 3 merges, you can take control of the fight because those tiny E saving measures, can add up to you have more options than the other guy as the fight speed slows down.

It is really so integrated it just about any fighter tactic lesson I give, that I don't even think about it, or have a 'script'.  Implications involving E are fairly common in any aspect of air combat in aces high, and I just point them out as I see them.

Just the opposite of what was said, I have to do some arm twisting at times to convince a newer player that we were co-E at that third merge, and they were just a capable as I to pull another verticle turn...then I explain the techniques for doing it without pushing it over the edge.

Also, most of the time right off the bat, I will show the disadvantages of going for that shot on the initial merge.  It doesnt take long to prove that point.

[Balsy]

Nuke, I integrate E discussion along the way at every opportunity, no matter what the topic is.  Even merge training, or basic maneuvers training, I will often give a running dialog of E observations. For instance the tightness of a turn, or the type of turn I see from one merge to the next, gives clues on how much energy the other guy is burning in relation to yours.  I'll mention things like that as I see it, and then prove the point by being able to make more verticle turns than the trainiee.  I really try to stress that E=maneuver options.  If you can bank just a tiny bit more E than the other guy over a series of 2 or 3 merges, you can take control of the fight because those tiny E saving measures, can add up to you have more options than the other guy as the fight speed slows down.

It is really so integrated it just about any fighter tactic lesson I give, that I don't even think about it, or have a 'script'.  Implications involving E are fairly common in any aspect of air combat in aces high, and I just point them out as I see them.

Just the opposite of what was said, I have to do some arm twisting at times to convince a newer player that we were co-E at that third merge, and they were just a capable as I to pull another verticle turn...then I explain the techniques for doing it without pushing it over the edge.

Also, most of the time right off the bat, I will show the disadvantages of going for that shot on the initial merge.  It doesnt take long to prove that point.

A lesson I relearned recently when dueling Skyrock.   Being overly aggressive without regard to the opponents E state will leave one at a decided disadvantage at each merge.  I am so used to cranking in flaps and going for a leadshot, and SR saw that and kept his plane clean, avoided shots and set up the perch...

Balsy

[cbizkit]

A lesson I relearned recently when dueling Skyrock.   Being overly aggressive without regard to the opponents E state will leave one at a decided disadvantage at each merge.  I am so used to cranking in flaps and going for a leadshot, and SR saw that and kept his plane clean, avoided shots and set up the perch...

Agree with this all the way. Beating someone cold on the merge means nothing if you don't convert the lead shot it generates into a kill on that pass. Plus it leaves you at the mercy of the other pilot. Successfully going angles on an E fighter at the merge essentially means converting just enough E for position such that the other guys E advantage doesn't leave you bled before you've had sufficient opportunities to kill him. If you don't get the kill by then, get ready to bust out the reversals and hope for some luck.

Reading your position (ahead/behind/faster/slower) after the merge is critical to understanding how much E you need to trade in relation to the other plane. If he's making a very lazy merge and you sell-out everything to get around first you're going to have position but little opportunity to take it as he climbs above.

[Murdr]

A lesson I relearned recently when dueling Skyrock.   Being overly aggressive without regard to the opponents E state will leave one at a decided disadvantage at each merge.  I am so used to cranking in flaps and going for a leadshot, and SR saw that and kept his plane clean, avoided shots and set up the perch...

Balsy

Cool, last time he and I went at it, he commented about me being on the E side of that equation.

[fuzeman]

<snip>
On another topic I think the bomb aiming crosshair should be disabled on TA, people I've trained tend to rely on it and make impossible drops instead of working on their approach speed and angle.

Being the Training Arena I think the green + training site should be there. It gets yoiu familiar with the sight picture needed to hit the target.
Where I go to actually do it without the training site is offline after turning off 'protectobjects' so I can bopmb friendly structures without worrying about field guns shooting me. Once my technique is down I then try at enemy fields with active field guns.
IMO its a two part process. First part in TA with training site, then either offline as I stated above or OTJ training in a main arena.