Author Topic: General Gun Discussion  (Read 15394 times)

Offline Megalodon

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Re: General Gun Discussion
« Reply #210 on: June 20, 2008, 12:32:22 PM »
Freedom Arms .454 if your going in the wild. :aok :rock
Okay..Add 2 Country's at once, Australia and France next plane update Add ...CAC Boomerang and the Dewoitine D.520

Offline Maverick

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Re: General Gun Discussion
« Reply #211 on: June 20, 2008, 02:25:55 PM »
Weapon retention is hardly a simple matter. There are many Police Officers killed with their own weapon each year. It was obvious that they were armed and the carry was open yet in a fight maintaining control of the weapon is dicey even for a holster that is has a full snap. In training we had more than a few good quality new holsters torn in mock weapon retention training. It is not too uncommon in a bad fight for the weapon to come out of the holster in the process making access to anyone standing around or also in the fight. I've had to snatch up a pistol that came loose from one officer's holster while in the middle of trying to subdue a suspect being arrested.

All it takes is for someone behind you to snatch it out of the holster before you know they are there while you are dealing with one person. We tried that in training and even when you were expecting it to happen it was at best a 50 - 50 chance of holding the gun in the holster but now you are in a fight for the gun and that's when most of the holsters ripped. That's one of the reasons Cops are paranoid about people being behind them.
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Offline midnight Target

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Re: General Gun Discussion
« Reply #212 on: June 20, 2008, 02:30:02 PM »
Just cause I like my new home....

http://www.opencarry.org/id.html


Quote
Idaho

Summary
Idaho is one of our "Gold Star" open carry states. They have full preemption of state laws, open carry is increasingly common and open carry is legal in motor vehicles.

Offline Angus

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Re: General Gun Discussion
« Reply #213 on: June 21, 2008, 06:08:44 AM »
I've been shooting gulls with a 2 3/4" 12 gauge together with friends that have 3" automatic of many brands.
Mine is a rather long barreled Russian Baikal.
Anyway, when I went up to 42.5 grammes, my firepower was better, the range was. Seemed like the reload more than ate up the difference in ammo size.
My dream has always been a 2 barrel Baikal, top&under for 3" ammo. Load up with slugs and what happens to teddy?
It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline lazs2

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Re: General Gun Discussion
« Reply #214 on: June 21, 2008, 08:29:41 AM »
rich.. I would not hunt large bears with a handgun either... but.. when the .357 came out in 1935 people hunted and killed every type of animal on the planet with one.. when the 44 mag came out people hunted and killed every type animal on the planet with one.. they have killed far more dangerous game than the 500 magnum of which people are now out hunting with trying to kill every type of animal on the planet with.

The 44 mag is still used by most guides and savy hunters because it is a good compromise between power and weight.   I would rather have one than not and..  I would not use softpoints for dangerous game.. I would use solids of 300 or more grains.

charon.. the jungle carbine is even more inaccurate than the regular enfield.. the only reason the enfield was considered a good gun was because it had a large mag and FOR A BOLT ACTION it was fast.   the reason that canadians hunt with em is because they are the most common gun.    They would be far better served with a good lightweight rifle with synthetic stock and chambered in a far more powerful round like the .308 or ought six..  there is nothing special about the weak 303 round except that it is.... weak.

lazs

Offline Angus

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Re: General Gun Discussion
« Reply #215 on: June 22, 2008, 10:27:45 AM »
So, the 44 mag has more power than the .357...?
It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline Rich46yo

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Re: General Gun Discussion
« Reply #216 on: June 22, 2008, 10:46:28 AM »

                       You can kill one with a .22 too. That isnt the issue. In my opinion to hunt a big bear with a handgun is a stunt, not a valid hunting tactic. I like hunting with hanguns too but if I was to ever go after a Griz on purpose I'd bring a heavy magnum rifle.

                      And Africa? Forgetaboutit. First off the only country you can hunt with a handgun is the RSA. Every other country has a "minumum for dangerous game" of a .375 rifle. Even an old timer like the brit .303 can launch a 180 grn pill with a ME of 2,600 lbs. A handgun like the .44 mag isnt even close.

                   Hey Jackal1 how many big bears have you taken with a handgun?


rich.. I would not hunt large bears with a handgun either... but.. when the .357 came out in 1935 people hunted and killed every type of animal on the planet with one.. when the 44 mag came out people hunted and killed every type animal on the planet with one.. they have killed far more dangerous game than the 500 magnum of which people are now out hunting with trying to kill every type of animal on the planet with.

The 44 mag is still used by most guides and savy hunters because it is a good compromise between power and weight.   I would rather have one than not and..  I would not use softpoints for dangerous game.. I would use solids of 300 or more grains.

charon.. the jungle carbine is even more inaccurate than the regular enfield.. the only reason the enfield was considered a good gun was because it had a large mag and FOR A BOLT ACTION it was fast.   the reason that canadians hunt with em is because they are the most common gun.    They would be far better served with a good lightweight rifle with synthetic stock and chambered in a far more powerful round like the .308 or ought six..  there is nothing special about the weak 303 round except that it is.... weak.

lazs
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Offline Angus

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Re: General Gun Discussion
« Reply #217 on: June 22, 2008, 12:26:49 PM »
.22 vs a Polar Bear looks worse than having a pitchfork....
I think Lazs has it with the .44 magnum.
It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline Jackal1

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Re: General Gun Discussion
« Reply #218 on: June 22, 2008, 05:22:49 PM »
                   Hey Jackal1 how many big bears have you taken with a handgun?

None with a handgun period. I`d love to have the chance though.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2008, 05:26:19 PM by Jackal1 »
Democracy is two wolves deciding on what to eat. Freedom is a well armed sheep protesting the vote.
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Offline Jackal1

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Re: General Gun Discussion
« Reply #219 on: June 22, 2008, 05:24:38 PM »
Quick question if anyone knows.
Will a Buehler low scope safety for 98 also work on the the 91 Mauser?
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Offline Charon

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Re: General Gun Discussion
« Reply #220 on: June 22, 2008, 11:04:47 PM »
Quote
charon.. the jungle carbine is even more inaccurate than the regular enfield.. the only reason the enfield was considered a good gun was because it had a large mag and FOR A BOLT ACTION it was fast.   the reason that canadians hunt with em is because they are the most common gun.    They would be far better served with a good lightweight rifle with synthetic stock and chambered in a far more powerful round like the .308 or ought six..  there is nothing special about the weak 303 round except that it is.... weak.

Mine shoots just fine. The difference in accuracy between any of the stock service weapons of WWII was too small to really be an issue, and there really are no service complaints about the accuracy of the No. 3 or No. 4. Some had better sights than others, but outside of competitive shooting matches 3-4 MOA was considered more than fine and about average. The No. 5 is credited with a wandering zero issue, but that doesn't seem to be replicatable by people actually trying to see if that is the case today. At the time, there was a big push to finally drop the lee enfield after 50 years of service for the FAL and some of that MIGHT have been political.

And the reasons you site for it, large action and fast are why it was considered to be the best combat bolt action used in WWI and WWII. It wasn't as robust as the Mauser, but there is no history of durability issues. In fact, quite the opposite. It had a bit looser tolerances than the Mauser and Springfield, but that didn't seem to impact accuracy to any great extent and allowed it to function better when dirty. The general saying is that the Mauser was the best hunting rifle (you can rebore it for more powerful rounds fairly easily and safely), the Springfield the best target rifle and the Enfield the best combat rifle (of the bolt actions). Killed plenty of Germans in 2 world wars, and plenty of others in numerous skirmishes and conflicts since including today in Afghanistan. But, I agree there are better hunting rifles and calibers.

If I ran into any big bear I would still rather have any Lee Enfield instead of the biggest handgun available. It may have somewhat less stopping power than a 30.06, and far less than the hunting magnums, but it has far more energy and penetration than a handgun round. As for its being "weak," as Wiki says its adequate for all big N. American game but the big bears -- but then the 30.06 isn't really seen as being all that adequate for the big bears. That being said, before the hunting super calibers came into being it was used frequently on all continents to successfully hunt all sorts of big and dangerous  game. But as you stated, and as I have already stated there are better modern hunting choices. Even the 30.06 is better, but not THAT much better.

Quote
Don’t confuse any of the shortcomings illustrated in the military development of the 303 as being a detriment to its effectiveness as a hunting cartridge. On the contrary, when loaded with a 180 or 215 grain soft nosed bullet the 303 is extremely effective on any North American game and shouldn’t be discounted when selecting a rifle for the fall hunt camp. Between 1893 and 1914 the .303 established a remarkable reputation for deep penetration on heavy African game with the 215 grain round nose bullets. Probably the first hunter to use a commercial .303 rifle was F.C. Selous who obtained a .303 Holland & Holland Farquharson single shot in 1893. Arthur Neumann the elephant hunter used one of the first Lee-Metford's for hunting in 1894. The same year Major Frederick Russell Burnham used his Lee-Metford sporter for game and in 1896 for war in Rhodesia.
http://enfieldrifles.profusehost.net/gh2.htm
« Last Edit: June 22, 2008, 11:10:50 PM by Charon »

Offline lazs2

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Re: General Gun Discussion
« Reply #221 on: June 23, 2008, 08:29:34 AM »
rich and charon..  people have and continue to hunt the most dangerous game on the planet with handguns including the 44 mag.    I would not.

It is far from a stunt tho..  hundreds of guys have done it maybe more.   I would not want to hike anywhere lugging around a high powered rifle of any sort but if I had to... If I had no access to a powerful handgun I would want a very light synthetic stocked bolt action in something like .308 or ought six.

If I had a choice between a bolt action in .303 or a lever gun in 44 mag I might take the 44 mag lever gun with it's 10 shot capacity and 1500 lbs of energy over the 2000 lbs of energy of the bolt action enfield..  a fast lever gun with 300 grain slugs that are .431 diameter are pretty good deal.

But for most of us.. we don't walk around with a 7 lb or so rifle slung over our back...  with the 44 we can carry a gun that weighs as little as 24 ounces and has 6,000 lb of energy stored in it's 6 chambers.  it will kill the most dangerous game known... man.. and it will kill big furry animals.   

I guess I would rather have my Garand with 8 shots of semi auto ought six but I sure wouldn't want to lug that thing around all day.

My enfield is almost unused.   It will not group better close to either my mauser or my garand.  If you shoot more than 10 rounds out of it the zero changes. on it.. they headspace is perfect and the gun is in good order.   It is more pleasant to shoot than most military rifles because it is so weak.   It is not a great weight savings over the garand tho..  not for climbing around on trails with.

I don't think that one shot from a bolt action would be any better than 3 or 4 from a revolver or 2 or three from a lever gun in 44 mag.   It is a bad situation in any case.   If you are far enough away that you can work the safety on a bolt action gun and then shoot and then work the bolt again.. you most likely didn't need to shoot anyway.

lazs

Offline wrag

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Re: General Gun Discussion
« Reply #222 on: June 23, 2008, 03:20:13 PM »
Didn't know Texas was

http://www.star-telegram.com/804/story/715977.html

interest SEEMS to be building?
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Offline lasersailor184

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Re: General Gun Discussion
« Reply #223 on: June 23, 2008, 05:31:49 PM »
With me working in some pretty bad parts of Philadelphia, I've been considering concealed carry weapons.

I currently have a Taurus PT92 9mm, which was a gift.  Decent gun, but it's practically a toy in my hands.  Looking to get a .45 or something similar when I have some money.  Tagent aside...



Being that I hardly ever wear sport coats, what are my options for holster types?
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Offline REP0MAN

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Re: General Gun Discussion
« Reply #224 on: June 23, 2008, 06:24:45 PM »
Depends on the State you live in IIRC.

Here in Nevada yes it is concealed UNLESS you place it in plan sight!

Like on the dashboard?

Then it's LEGAL again..............

Not sure I would want to place my firearm on the dash but...........

Maybe if I was getting pulled over for a traffic violation or something then maybe?

If I stop you and you put a gun on the dash, we are going to have a problem. And, by problem, I mean you, asphalt, handcuffs, gunpoint kind of problem.

There is no open carry here in Oklahoma besides transporting and even then, they must be unloaded. If you are a CCW permit holder, you MUST tell me that you have a weapon. If I find it on you, without you telling me, kiss your CCW permit goodbye.

I am from Arizona and I have open carried before (before my LEO time as well). I agree that maybe it would deter some crime but I think it incites unwanted attention from both sides of the law. Go CCW and put it out of the publics eye.

I carry off duty when I can. I have two jobs so sometimes I can't.

Oh, and I can CCW in any state AND on airplanes. Neener Neener! :D
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