Alternative fuel debate

[SteveBailey]

We are already seeing shortages in the word of food staples because more ground is being used to grow corn for ethanol than food.

Actually, this is what I thought until I spoke to a farmer. Here's how it actually works:  The corn used to feed livestock is pressed, squeezing out the corn oil for ethanol production.  The remaining mush is then fed to livestock.

Simply put, the corn for ethanol food shortage is a myth.

[StugIII]

yea, a myth thats y the prices of food is gonna skyrocket, now i know its due to transportation costs also, but if u don't have something or little of it what does it do?, drives the price up, were running out crops epically rice and grain. Its only gonna get worse too, because China, India and other countries with huge populations are growing and cutting even further into the demand for food.

[SteveBailey]

You don't have to like it, but ethanol production has nothing to do with food shortages.

Demand is up, as you so correctly mentioned gasoline prices have exacerbated the situation. With the crash of the dollar, our exports(food) are cheap elsewhere,  further driving the market higher. Some say speculators are also influencing prices, this is a possibility I guess.

It could get worse, much worse.  The fields in the midwest are so soaked, often flooded, that some may not be able to be planted in time to complete a growing season. One could make some money selling short, I'm having trouble coming up with any other good news.

[Jackal1]

Actually, this is what I thought until I spoke to a farmer. Here's how it actually works:  The corn used to feed livestock is pressed, squeezing out the corn oil for ethanol production.  The remaining mush is then fed to livestock.

Simply put, the corn for ethanol food shortage is a myth.

It`s called filler.
It has nothing to do with the land being tied up for ethanol production.
The land is not being used to produce food is the point.
The by-product of the rolled corn is nothing more than filler for fiber.
Livestock still have to have their rations.

[SteveBailey]

It`s called filler.
It has nothing to do with the land being tied up for ethanol production.
The land is not being used to produce food is the point.
The by-product of the rolled corn is nothing more than filler for fiber.
Livestock still have to have their rations.

Could you's splain this to me a little differently please?  I don't know what you are saying.  If you are saying the cows aren't eating the corn, either you or the farmer is mistaken.

[Jackal1]

Could you's splain this to me a little differently please?  I don't know what you are saying.  If you are saying the cows aren't eating the corn, either you or the farmer are mistaken.

Yes the cows are eating the by-product from the rolled corn as a filler for roughage.
They still have to have their rations. Not much nutritional value per original weight of corn. The concentrations after rolling/compressing are causing some problems also.
You can get roughage from hay.
That`s not the point though. The point is all of the land being tied up for this instead of producing food.

[SteveBailey]

Yes the cows are eating the by-product from the rolled corn as a filler for roughage.
They still have to have their rations. Not much nutritional value per original weight of corn. The concentrations after rolling/compressing are causing some problems also.
You can get roughage from hay.
That`s not the point though. The point is all of the land being tied up for this instead of producing food.

I'm not sure the farmer would agree with you.  Where did you get your info?  Be that as it may, I think ethanol production is a waste and probably takes more resources/energy than it actually produces... a total waste of time.

[Jackal1]

I`m not sure you would agree that the sun comes up in the east ......................with anyone.
The point is not the resources and energy used, although that`s a good point. In this context it is the land that is being tied up purely for the making of ethanol and not being used to produce food.
It`s not only going to cause problems if it continues. It is now.

[Hawker25]

I am glad to see that there is a discussion going on about this topic i believe discussion among people is the first step to finding a solution to a problem.  I am looking for the article right now from fox news that i read probably six months ago.  The main point was that if we all switched to e85 than at current usage we could not grow enough crops to sustain our fuel load and to our food needs.  So i believe that yes right now we still have fields available if the US made a serious effort to switch we could not sustain ourselves.  I still believe cng is is a good step to take before moving to hydrogen.  Then i would open up drilling around the us for oil, because we are still going to need oil to produce things like: plastics, tires, and other such petro goods.  My feelings are that i would much rather see my dollars and other Americans dollars staying inside the us or instead of propping up regimes that are hostile to the us.   In 2007 total OPEC import where 1.97 BILLION barrels of oil.  Now multiply that times $120 a barrel and figure how much money we are sending out of the country.  At a time when our economy is in trouble we are cutting our own throats sending our money overseas.   It is no wonder a Saudi prince just bought a Airbus 380 for his own personal use.

Rabbit27

[wrongwayric]

Hmmm dollar weak yet they want our food? Seems to me you make someone hungry enough they'll pay what you want there by strengthening the dollar. Kind of like what's going on with oil right now. Stop exporting food till they get hungry! Make food the rival of oil in these foreign countries! Sure i'll pay $4 a gallon for gas and you pay $4 for a lb of grain. Works for me.

[Angus]

Problem is....
1. we're going to run out of fossil fuel.
2. some have more consumption than others.
3. those "some" with more consumption may take a fuel crisis worse than the others.

[Fulmar]

I just thought this kitten gif was cute and couldn't find a place to put it, so I'll put it here.
(Image removed from quote.)

Best post here, hands down!

[E25280]

Could you's splain this to me a little differently please?  I don't know what you are saying.  If you are saying the cows aren't eating the corn, either you or the farmer is mistaken.

Put another way . . . the nutritional content (for humans, anyway) of corn is in the stuff they squeeze out.  The stuff that is left that goes in as cow feed filler is the same stuff the elves in your colon put back together and you see at the bottom of the potty.  You can't make flour from it, hence no corn tortillas for Mexico.  You could eat it if you wanted to, but you would starve.  The Cow won't, but you will.

[Jackal1]

That and the concentration that is left is not a ration in itself and is causing problems even in the cattle.
It`s nothing new other than the extent it is being taken to and the rises in cost of everything else involved due to it tying up land that would otherwise be used to produce food. Wheat, oats, veggies , fruit, soybeans,...on and on.
By products have always been used and are good to suppliment, but not as a ration.
Once again..my alternative to alternatives is explore/drill/refine/produce gasoline and diesel right here in the good old U.S.A. Foreign  oil price would then regulate itself and we could deal with it as needed.
Time to stop the BS and get on with life.