Author Topic: Re: New KOTH Rules  (Read 4890 times)

Offline DoNKeY

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Re: New KOTH Rules
« Reply #30 on: May 26, 2008, 08:21:02 PM »
BiPolar, you are correct, and I've already explained it to the KOTH team.  That doesn't change anything though.

Skyrock, you got me curious.

What I saw, the players involved were dealt with.  I didn't see you as part of this at all.  Is there something else out there I need to see?

If you were involved, I'd like to see that.  If you Chose to make yourself involved with something that didn't concern you, well that is your problem and I can't solve that.

He means that we were all involved since this was let out in the public forums, not what you are implying.

donkey
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Offline Banshee7

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Re: New KOTH Rules
« Reply #31 on: May 26, 2008, 08:34:56 PM »
sounds like a lot of stuff going on that shoulda stopped a time ago?  anyway you won't see me in KOTH
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Offline SkyRock

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Re: New KOTH Rules
« Reply #32 on: May 26, 2008, 10:31:10 PM »
BiPolar, you are correct, and I've already explained it to the KOTH team.  That doesn't change anything though.

Skyrock, you got me curious.

What I saw, the players involved were dealt with.  I didn't see you as part of this at all.  Is there something else out there I need to see?

If you were involved, I'd like to see that.  If you Chose to make yourself involved with something that didn't concern you, well that is your problem and I can't solve that.

You might just want to do what is right, explain exactly what rule m00t broke....   or are you saying that asking who is left is a tactical advantage?  Bottom line is many of us feel a type of "good ole boy", under the table" mentality coming from the KOTH CM's on how they handled this situation.  Not to mention the unprofessional behavior of the CM's at times, (that is up until their authority is questioned) then we get the "this is the law", and its none of your business how we came to this conclusion.  Now, if you guys are so elite and all powerful that you can't fully explain this entire incident and how it was handled by the authorities that be(CM's), then the credibility of the entire KOTH CM staff is jeapordized!  The incident was very public and Now, are you going to let us know how the decision came about to punish m00t, and why 2 months were chosen.  Or will I be banned for asking?  I mean Lute, was not even banned, he stepped down honorably, while m00t was made looking like a cheater!  B S!!!!!


OK.  I apologize for being in such a antagonistic tone, but it is imperative that the CM KOTH staff go the extra mile to instill outstanding bojectiveness and open honesty, imho! :salute


Mark
« Last Edit: May 26, 2008, 10:46:07 PM by SkyRock »

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Offline ROC

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Re: New KOTH Rules
« Reply #33 on: May 26, 2008, 11:19:34 PM »
Speculation doesn't become you.

Quote
Ahh here we go the start of more vindictive BS .

I wasn't implying anything.  Kindly read where Skyrock brought something up, and I asked for clarification.  How can I be vindictive asking for clarification of something?  Your asking a question crocket, are you honestly curious about something or do I apply your rules and consider you vindictive because they are laced with what I "feel" is mean spiritedness?  Do the rules of decency and good intention only apply to you?  I asked a question of Skyrock, you stuck your nose in, with an opening shot based on what...speculation?  Hmm, that's a shame.

See how quickly things can deteriorate when you have a preconceived idea of what someone meant?  Did I bring up the subject?  Nope, Skyrock did.. 

These are things that I am trying to point out, this is why things go sideways.  Speculation, assumptions, drawing conclusions based on what you Think someone meant. 

Skyrock brought up his being involved.  He didn't clarify what he meant by that, I asked at what level.  Clearly, I explained why I saw a distinct and different level of involvement.  One suggested culpability in recent events, once suggested inserting himself into a situation that he wasn't involved with.  Clearly, knowing Skyrock for a while, I have full faith that he sees what the comment, phrased the way it was, left open a concern that he created.  Your comment was a cheap shot, mine was a question with logical conclusions to draw from.  Vindictive?

If you think this is vindictive, there will never be any satisfying you, and frankly this is why I don't bother trying :) 

Again.  Crocket, that was none of your concern, that was a question to Skyrock.  He's a big boy, can answer for himself.  Your inserting yourself into it solves nothing, contributes nothing, and goes along way towards being a clear example of what I won't waste time trying to solve.

Hope this helps you understand.  If not, that's not my problem.

Skyrock, you won't be banned for asking anything.  I've already answered it though.  Not going to discuss penalties on another player with you.  The Koth team, I believe, is going the extra mile to settle this.  The first questions I asked through the rules redraft were intended to poke holes in the rules, to make them clarify them so there was no speculation.  That's a start, clarity of the rules.  Again, unless your directly involved in the prior situation, the only thing anyone need concern themselves with is in making sure the KOTH rules are clear.  That should solve each and every little issue anyone has from this point forward.  If the Rules are clear, and the Players understand them, and the CMs apply the decisions consistently, then every single concern anyone has is thwarted.  Doesn't that sound simple?  Arguing about what was would be energy better spent making sure you know what is.  If, that is, everyone is truly concerned about actually solving something.  Are you?  I am.  Satisfying your curiosity over something is not a solution though.  It isn't going to happen.  My grandma used to gossip with her neighbor all the time.  Drove me crazy, never had a taste for it.  That's all it is, gossip.  Not your concern. 

Now, get this.  If a CM doesn't apply a rule consistently, you show me, and it's fixed.

If a Player doesn't get a penalty and should, you show the Cm who can't see everything, and it's fixed, standings etc modified.  Might see there Was a penalty, so that your concern was shown to have been addressed, might not know the full details, but that's just the way it is.

Rules are clear enough, that if everyone spends time reviewing them and making sure they are clear, instead of wasting time with this silly stuff, then the Rules improve because everyone is on the same page.

Isn't productivity nice? 

This subject is growing old.  It's time to get past it.  You won't be banned for asking, but I will spend my time, and my team will spend their time on moving forward.  Not ducking, hiding or anything, simply not opening things up where it's not your concern.  This is the last time I'm going to explain that.  If anyone hasn't figured it out by now, don't be surprised if you are simply ignored.  If people insist on pushing the issue into the point of disruption, I'll deal with that on it's own merits. 

I don't do KOTH, I have a team that does KOTH, I came here to fix something broken.  It's fixed, and I have other things to get done now.  Been nice chatting with you all. 






ROC
Nothing clever here.  Please, move along.

Offline ROC

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Re: New KOTH Rules
« Reply #34 on: May 26, 2008, 11:31:54 PM »
BTW, Sky, you have a PM.
ROC
Nothing clever here.  Please, move along.

Offline crockett

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Re: New KOTH Rules
« Reply #35 on: May 27, 2008, 06:39:16 AM »
Speculation doesn't become you.

I wasn't implying anything.  Kindly read where Skyrock brought something up, and I asked for clarification.  How can I be vindictive asking for clarification of something?  Your asking a question crocket, are you honestly curious about something or do I apply your rules and consider you vindictive because they are laced with what I "feel" is mean spiritedness?  Do the rules of decency and good intention only apply to you?  I asked a question of Skyrock, you stuck your nose in, with an opening shot based on what...speculation?  Hmm, that's a shame.

See how quickly things can deteriorate when you have a preconceived idea of what someone meant?  Did I bring up the subject?  Nope, Skyrock did.. 

These are things that I am trying to point out, this is why things go sideways.  Speculation, assumptions, drawing conclusions based on what you Think someone meant. 

Skyrock brought up his being involved.  He didn't clarify what he meant by that, I asked at what level.  Clearly, I explained why I saw a distinct and different level of involvement.  One suggested culpability in recent events, once suggested inserting himself into a situation that he wasn't involved with.  Clearly, knowing Skyrock for a while, I have full faith that he sees what the comment, phrased the way it was, left open a concern that he created.  Your comment was a cheap shot, mine was a question with logical conclusions to draw from.  Vindictive?

If you think this is vindictive, there will never be any satisfying you, and frankly this is why I don't bother trying :) 

Again.  Crocket, that was none of your concern, that was a question to Skyrock.  He's a big boy, can answer for himself.  Your inserting yourself into it solves nothing, contributes nothing, and goes along way towards being a clear example of what I won't waste time trying to solve.

Hope this helps you understand.  If not, that's not my problem.

Skyrock, you won't be banned for asking anything.  I've already answered it though.  Not going to discuss penalties on another player with you.  The Koth team, I believe, is going the extra mile to settle this.  The first questions I asked through the rules redraft were intended to poke holes in the rules, to make them clarify them so there was no speculation.  That's a start, clarity of the rules.  Again, unless your directly involved in the prior situation, the only thing anyone need concern themselves with is in making sure the KOTH rules are clear.  That should solve each and every little issue anyone has from this point forward.  If the Rules are clear, and the Players understand them, and the CMs apply the decisions consistently, then every single concern anyone has is thwarted.  Doesn't that sound simple?  Arguing about what was would be energy better spent making sure you know what is.  If, that is, everyone is truly concerned about actually solving something.  Are you?  I am.  Satisfying your curiosity over something is not a solution though.  It isn't going to happen.  My grandma used to gossip with her neighbor all the time.  Drove me crazy, never had a taste for it.  That's all it is, gossip.  Not your concern. 

Now, get this.  If a CM doesn't apply a rule consistently, you show me, and it's fixed.

If a Player doesn't get a penalty and should, you show the Cm who can't see everything, and it's fixed, standings etc modified.  Might see there Was a penalty, so that your concern was shown to have been addressed, might not know the full details, but that's just the way it is.

Rules are clear enough, that if everyone spends time reviewing them and making sure they are clear, instead of wasting time with this silly stuff, then the Rules improve because everyone is on the same page.

Isn't productivity nice? 

This subject is growing old.  It's time to get past it.  You won't be banned for asking, but I will spend my time, and my team will spend their time on moving forward.  Not ducking, hiding or anything, simply not opening things up where it's not your concern.  This is the last time I'm going to explain that.  If anyone hasn't figured it out by now, don't be surprised if you are simply ignored.  If people insist on pushing the issue into the point of disruption, I'll deal with that on it's own merits. 

I don't do KOTH, I have a team that does KOTH, I came here to fix something broken.  It's fixed, and I have other things to get done now.  Been nice chatting with you all. 


I'm in the same squad, considering you guys have banned a entire squad in the past, what afects players in my squad can affect me besides that this is all out on the public forum. Anyone who reads it, can input their opinions.

What about the fact, that in your forum PM to me you specifically stated that Lute was not banned as a CM for KOTH events because of the in game PM he made. You specify said it was not winging and he didn't break any rules. You said the reason he was banned from the event was bickering with other players or what ever you called it, I forget.  In any means you made a very specific point of justifying that Lute didn't break any rules or cheat with his PM.

Yet you turn around and give m00t a short ban for the exact same thing that you claimed was ok for your CM. How is that not a double standard? How is asking who killed someone worse than PMing the location of a player who has a chance of winning the event? If one is a tactical advantage the other is as well. So why is it cheating when m00t did it, but not when your CM did it?

You were extremely clear and went into much detail justifying why Lute's PM didn't break any rules yet now somehow m00t's squad text is much worse. Give me a break man, how can you not see how hypocritical that is? Hell man I even went on to post in my squad forum that there is no way m00t would get banned nor anyone else after the PM you sent.

I figured there surely isn't anyway you could justify banning anyone else after you went out of your way claiming Lute didn't do anything wrong with his PM. I figured it was all done and over with and things were back on track. Guess I was wrong.
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Offline Balsy

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Re: New KOTH Rules
« Reply #36 on: May 27, 2008, 08:23:47 AM »
I'm voluntarily banning myself from reading anymore of this Soap Opera Warrior drivel.

How about we all get our panties untwisted, and fly and shoot stuff.

Balsy


Offline moot

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Re: New KOTH Rules
« Reply #37 on: May 27, 2008, 12:33:13 PM »
How about we all get our panties untwisted, and fly and shoot stuff.
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Offline evenhaim

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Re: New KOTH Rules
« Reply #38 on: May 27, 2008, 01:37:49 PM »
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Offline SkyRock

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Re: New KOTH Rules
« Reply #39 on: June 02, 2008, 11:56:24 PM »











 If the Rules are clear, and the Players understand them, and the CMs apply the decisions consistently, then every single concern anyone has is thwarted. 


 Not your concern. 


Rules are clear enough


If people insist on pushing the issue into the point of disruption, I'll deal with that on it's own merits. 









ROC, I didn't get the PM. 

The rules, and penalties of an event I participate in are my concern.

The rules in place when m00t's actions got his penalty are in question along with the actions of the CM staff that delivered the penalty.  What rule did m00t break to get a ban????????????????????


I won't play KOTH again unless I get an explanation, but then again, one less Muppet might be what the CM's want.......apparently?  My squad feels very dishonored by what we saw, and how this was handled, and in that respect, I am involved.  Consider my absence at KOTH my protest. 




Lastly, threatening people does not give the one doing the threatening credibility, quite the contrary. 


Done.


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Offline Scotch

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Re: New KOTH Rules
« Reply #40 on: June 03, 2008, 04:57:15 AM »
If anyone wants a fair, yet raw and to the point alternative to KOTH, look up 'The Kennel' in the DA...

 :salute
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Offline TheDudeDVant

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Re: New KOTH Rules
« Reply #41 on: June 03, 2008, 07:53:07 AM »
Why not be open about what m00t was banned for? I don't understand.... Would that not lead to clarification of the KOTH rules to play by??  Are you guys (CMs) not saying why he was banned b/c you feel it might jeopardize the KOTH event further??

Honest communication seems the wiser choice here imo..

Also, to clarify, I have asked m00t why he was banned.. m00t was unable to give a satisfactory reply that could be applied to the 'known' set of rules in KOTH.

What ever the reason in the end it is the CM's choice..  Certainly the players could and should be trusted to the workings of the KOTH justice system since we play knowing we are subject to that system..

Offline VonMessa

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Re: New KOTH Rules
« Reply #42 on: June 03, 2008, 09:00:18 AM »
What ever happened to a good ole' public flogging?

Seems more fun than some cloak & dagger stuff.

I've only flown KOTH 2 or 3 times, but just a humble question.....

If it is TRULY every man for himself, why are there ANY forms of communication allowed besides a "fight on" by the CM or a one-way commo channel to the CM for "No-Joys"  Can the radio simply be shut down?


I'm sure you don't give a



what I think, as I am only 1 guy, but considering what I have seen going on lately, I am less inclined to participate in KOTH than ever.  I am also less likely to tout it to my friends.

I have no intentions of taking sides, but I just wanted to give a total outside opinion (before you tell me how opinions are like arse's , etc ... save it for someone who cares)

Players committing infractions:

Most of you are not new.  The rules are (mostly) clear.  Flirting with disaster, or skirting dangerously on the edge of (or trying to "bend") the rules as much as possible OR constantly testing the limits of said rules will piss off anyone "in-charge"  Claiming ignorance will not cut it, either.  "Who, little ole' me?"  is easily transparent.  Playing with fire will eventually get you burned.
In short, don't push your luck.


now

Persons In Charge

     "Because I said so" is what we tell our kids.  "Because it's da rulz" is kinda weak.  "He knows what he did wrong" is less-than informative.  "It's none of you business" is plain rude, especially coming from persons who are volunteers and not paid employees of HTC.  The combination of any or all of the above can come across as many things:

A witch hunt for certain players, or squads
An attempt to make an arena one group's own private sandbox
An excuse for making a bad judgment call and a now lame attempt to sweep it under the carpet.
A way to "even the score" with another player or squad that you may have a less-than-perfect rapport with

In short.  Bring it in the open, explain it thoroughly and concisely, admit any mistakes made(if any) and make it perfectly clear that the matter is closed, that there will be no more discussions about it, and what the (clear) penalties for doing so are..


     Just some outsider observations guys and , as always, feel free to tell me where to shove them.  From my point of view, and I'm sure I can't be the only one, the playground is getting too muddy to play in.  The drama to old fashioned shooting each other ratio is out of proportion.
   
Flame on  :aok
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Offline dedalos

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Re: New KOTH Rules
« Reply #43 on: June 03, 2008, 11:55:08 AM »
If anyone wants a fair, yet raw and to the point alternative to KOTH, look up 'The Kennel' in the DA...

 :salute

When are they there?  I must be on at the wrong times
Quote from: 2bighorn on December 15, 2010 at 03:46:18 PM
Dedalos pretty much ruined DA.

Offline DoNKeY

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Re: New KOTH Rules
« Reply #44 on: June 03, 2008, 01:22:42 PM »
When are they there?  I must be on at the wrong times

We make it a point to avoid you... at all costs!!!!    :O :O


 :noid :noid :noid

donkey
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