Radar...

[33Vortex]

Yes, same here, having no problems whatsoever with the short range icons. The only difference it makes is that you will have to look harder for enemies, and once sighted, they are easier to loose sight of. Which is all very much more realistic imo than to have all enemy info served on a platter. With icons, it becomes impossible almost to loose sight of a enemy. Which was what many times happened in a fight or post-merge. Loose sight, loose the fight! Was imprinted in the mind of many (if not all) fighter pilots, in this arena it is (almost) true.

[Jester]

Yes, same here, having no problems whatsoever with the short range icons. The only difference it makes is that you will have to look harder for enemies, and once sighted, they are easier to loose sight of. Which is all very much more realistic imo than to have all enemy info served on a platter. With icons, it becomes impossible almost to loose sight of a enemy. Which was what many times happened in a fight or post-merge. Loose sight, loose the fight! Was imprinted in the mind of many (if not all) fighter pilots, in this arena it is (almost) true.

Agree with Vortex, with the addition of the Bar Dar the settings are about perfect for realistic battle.

Though it does cut down on the "Furballing" - you have to work a little harder to find a fight - it will be a turn-off for some.

 

[33Vortex]

A good point Jester, but this arena does aim for a more realistic approach and so the lack of 'furballing' is a welcome change. For most people who want to play the AvA anyway, I believe. So what if one arena lack furballs? Go to different one if you're that much into furballing. It will still happen occasionally, when two groups of players run into eachother. Furballing did happen irl, but was by no means the preferred way to engage a enemy.  The AvA should favor the pilot, squad or side, which use correct tactics and seek to engage the enemy on favorable terms.

So I won't miss the furballing, but it will still be fun when it does happen. Those who want to more easily find a good furball though, should go to a different arena imo.

[Krusty]

That's odd. I can usually identify cons well before coming in icon range in the AvA. Heck I can identify different bombers in 5"er's in the MA before they come into icon range.

There is a difference with bombers, and their 100-foot-plus wingspan, vs compact, small, fighters. I was talking about fighters mostly, as they are the most common con in the game.

P.S. Vortex, that's silly. The "preferred" way of combat was to come in without the enemy seeing you and killing them before they could react. The REAL way was that most often attacks were spotted, and planes turned into the attack. Not a "furball" as you put it, but a dogfight.

[oceans11]

Dont you just love that DAR BAR story written by that author who was in WWII

What was his name I cannot seem to remember it

Ohh yea thats right his name was

                                                        I wish Joe
                              As in I wish they had DAR BARS in those days

[Shamus]

Dont you just love that DAR BAR story written by that author who was in WWII

What was his name I cannot seem to remember it

Ohh yea thats right his name was

                                                        I wish Joe
                              As in I wish they had DAR BARS in those days

If I recall correctly Bubi gave you the name of the book and authors name on two different occasions on 200 last night, may I suggest that you keep a pad of paper and pen next to your computer?

shamus   

[oceans11]

If I recall correctly Bubi gave you the name of the book and authors name on two different occasions on 200 last night, may I suggest that you keep a pad of paper and pen next to your computer?

shamus   

So there is a book that talks about computer TTY and dar bars in WWII


I suggest you a cat scan 

[Shamus]

So there is a book that talks about computer TTY and dar bars in WWII


I suggest you a cat scan 

Well it sounds to me as if you don't like having dar bars in the AvA and therefore in your mind there was nothing in WW2 that approximated them, thats fine 

shamus

[Motherland]

So there is a book that talks about computer TTY and dar bars in WWII


I suggest you a cat scan 

Yes.
German interceptor pilots had a grid of sectors where enemy locations and concentration sizes were reported. Sounds rather like dar bar to me.

[Stampf]

Yes.
German interceptor pilots had a grid of sectors where enemy locations and concentration sizes were reported. Sounds rather like dar bar to me.

Bingo.  Give that boy a prize. 

[33Vortex]

Krusty, was there anything in my post that said it wasn't so? Quite a few of these "dogfights" resulted in nothing, as both pilots decided to run for it instead and broke off, or one lost sight of the other who then slipped away. What I mean by furballing is the mentality of pilots/players to throw themselves into a fight chasing a kill, blind to what's going on around them, perhaps getting that kill but then end up getting killed themselves by someone because they weren't paying attention. That's just stupidity. To promote such gameplay is to lower the IQ of the whole playerbase, not to mention the skill.

[Krusty]

33, to promote the opposite is to nurture a generation of timid scared pilots that never fight.

It's not an either/or situation. It's a continuum. You have to have a good balance of both.

You can't just say "furballing is stupid" because without it most of you wouldn't find any fights.

Also, I think you're falling into the mentality that complains about "furballers" without really considering what it means and what it refers to.

Diving into a fight mindlessly is one thing. Finding the only fight in the entire arena and going in, getting too tied down to run, extend, or get ready for a "fresh" (i.e. newly reupped, newly arrived) con higher and faster is not furballing.

You entered into a localized fight. You had SA and you had a plan in mind. Whether other folks find your fight while it's in progress does not mean it's a "furball" (a term used far too much with negative connotations on this BBS). If you're the only fight in the arena, others will show up. You might call it a furball, but it's not. It's jus the natural flow of the gameplay to seek out the enemy. That will result in dogfights, clustering of friends and foe, in a localized area.

Nothing to do with dar at all, just debating the comment you've posted. You've made very clear your opinion on the matter, but consider that several members of my squadron have said that they went into the AvA (recently) and essentially clubbed baby seals for a long time before getting bored and leaving (my words, not theirs). After a certain point, playing timid so nobody knows where the fight is or where to go deteriorates flight skill more than actually mixing it up. Now we loop all the way back to my continuum comment, and you have to find the right balance between the 2.

</debate>

[oceans11]

Yes.
German interceptor pilots had a grid of sectors where enemy locations and concentration sizes were reported. Sounds rather like dar bar to me.

NOW you need a little bit of info.
GERMAN PILOTS HAD GRID SECTORS WHERE ENEMY LOCATION AND CONCENTRATION SIZES WERE REPORTED   This was static and it did not change as the day went. They did not have computers and streaming bit content editors , RPG, Perl , C++ C Java HTMP Python . They had a clip board before they went up and used the force hopefully catching the area of concentrationsoff guard to attack.

They did not have constantly updating CPU ,Video Graphic dar bars , Bar dars changing in real time .

Please stop trying to convince everybody that it is equal to the same .
Because It wasn't .
                                         I don't know if I should go get a Kleenex Isle 2 for laughing so hard or for crying so hard from laughing .

The transistor was just getting created in the minds of people and the first computer weighed probably more that the aircraft we fly in this SIM today (maybe not the bombers.

I know I  know there is a book of Hitlers secret laptop invention he got from Leonardo Divinci's lost code and every German pilot Had a Fujitsu stone tablet .

                                                     

[Motherland]

Actually, they got radio reports/updates of the positions over time, believe it or not.

[33Vortex]

Dude what are you smoking? So you think that people were idiots back then? That they couldn't relay information to the people who needed it in (almost) realtime? Do you have any idea what a telephone operator was back then? There were places where hundreds of staff personnel would work on these particular issues, trying to get the relevant info to the right people as quickly as they could. I'm sorry, I really don't want to insult you, and it's not meant that way, but I think you just did it yourself by posting what you did.

What do you think the staffers were doing? Sitting at a café flirting with french girls as the bombers passed over their heads?