HO shot or Deflection?

[SlapShot]

Is whining about others using lesser tactics simply a way to claim superiority?  As in "I'm too good to use the HO!"

Whining about getting killed in this game, HO or not ... is STUPID.

When I get taken out by an HO ... it's because I decided to stay "in" and allowed it or I left myself open for it ... so there is no need to whine, and I have no one to blame but myself.

Confronting people who promote the HO ... I will call them out on it.

[mtnman]

I don't see how the HO could be promoted as being a "good" tactic.  Best option available in a certain stuation?  Maybe.

You hit the nail on the head Slapshot- whining about getting killed is what my main gripe is about.  IMO, the constant stream of whines and slurs on 200 and the BBS is far more "unhealthy" for decent gameplay than front-quarter/HO shots.  I'm not saying 200 should go away, or that people should be censored- more that people should actually think about what they're saying before they take the knee-jerk reaction of jumping on the popular opinion bandwagon.

[mtnman]

Mtnman, let me know when the movie comes out...

 

Awww, c'mon Kermit!  Take the bull by the horns!

Waiting for the movie is the easy way out, and could be dangerous.  In essence, you're waiting for someone else to decide for you which parts you'll be able to consider.

You may not be letting them decide what you'll think, but you're letting them decide what you'll think about...

Have you ever read a book, and seen a movie, where the movie wasn't sadly lacking...  Entertaining maybe, but still lacking.

Either way, for someone whom I know despises the HO, you impress me (as you have before) by not simply attacking an argument that doesn't fit the "normal" view.  Withholding an opinion until you have time to consider the information available is a noble act.

My argument surely has holes.  That's fine.  I enjoy the debate as much as anything, even if I'm shown wrong or am convinced to alter my opinion along the way.  A week ago, I despised HO's too.  Now, while not "pro-HO", I do find myself "HO-neutral".  A necessary evil...

To devote as much time to a game as we do, and not give some thought to it, seems wasteful.

[dirtdart]

Slapshot...agreed.  It is not the only tactic, however to personalize your argument on this forum is the stuff of teenagers.  If someone is silly enough to fly head on to me, I will take a pop shot before making the next move.  I deliberately fly the mossie because it is challenging.  Come in LWO Blue, I fly with Rolling Thunder and perhaps your judgments will change about me and the way I fly. 

[SlapShot]

Slapshot...agreed.  It is not the only tactic, however to personalize your argument on this forum is the stuff of teenagers.  If someone is silly enough to fly head on to me, I will take a pop shot before making the next move.  I deliberately fly the mossie because it is challenging.  Come in LWO Blue, I fly with Rolling Thunder and perhaps your judgments will change about me and the way I fly. 

DD, drop you insulting innuendos  ... I am far from a teenager ... ask my 3 grandchildren ... but what I do have is an "opinion" and on certain subjects ... I voice it and if you don't like the way I state my opinion ... that is your problem, not mine. You stated yours ... I stated mine ... simple as that ... nothing personal on my part. It doesn't matter who you are or what you do.

I fly MW the most ... and if I am not in there, I can be found in the LW Blue. I would say that 99.999% of the enemies that run into, in the Blue arena ... GO FOR THE HO ... right off the bat. So ... 99.999% of the people that I encounter ARE silly enough to fly head on at me ... but I have taken the time to learn how to spoil their HO attempt, and if they stick around, I will reverse and kill them within 1 to 3 turns .. .and for the most part, it is in 1 turn.

If 99.999% of the people come at me HO and I take a 50/50 chance of winning or losing in an HO ... then what kind of fun is that. I am surely not going to get any quality flight or fight time ... so I avoid it at all cost. I fail to see a sense of satisfaction flying directly at someone, crossing my fingers, squeezing the trigger and HOPING that I survive or get him first.

Over the years I have faced many newcomers to this game that after they lose terribly on their first HO attempt, they keep coming back to see if it will work again ... and to no avail ... I then eventually ask them if they would like some pointers and if they respond with a "yes", then I tell them that the first thing they need to do ... IS NOT HO ... prior to the merge, rather than concentrating on getting "guns on" ... think about your opening move after the merge ... and also try to think 2 or more possible moves after that. Most I ask just tell me to "piss off noob" ... and they die repeatedly.

As long as you are concentrating on the HO and having to force a guns solution ... you will die quickly to someone who even has limited air-to-air skills ... if you stick around.

If I am flying in the Blue arena and see you on ... I will gladly come and join you ... hopefully my F6F or FM2 can keep up with your Mossie.

[Kazaa]

It's a HO If both parties have gun solution, everything else is a deflection.

[WMLute]

I fly with Rolling Thunder

I love fighting that squad.

They come to the fight en mass, die in droves, and just keep on coming.

Sometimes, from sheer numbers alone, they will capture the base.

In their minds, they "won" 'cause they took the base.

In MY mind I "won" as I got 20-40 kills vs. a couple deaths.

So I guess everybody "wins".

(back on subject)

I never understood putting yourself in a 50/50 live/die situation.  Whenever I take off, I plan on landing.  Even when I am defending a base against a hoard I "plan" on landing with kills on board.  Flying around face shooting everything I see isn't very conductive to that philosophy.

If someone is silly enough to fly head on to me, I will take a pop shot before making the next move.

What I think you are failing to understand is just how out of position you are in the fight because of that move.  If your opponent has even a basic understanding about how to fight, you START the fight at a huge disadvantage because of the attempted face shot.  THEY are already doing their next move as your are pulling the trigger.  So they start the fight one move ahead of you and you are probably gonna die.

For me it all boils down to fun.  If dying a couple times to get one kill is "fun" for you, then keep doing what you are doing.  IF on the other hand you think you MIGHT enjoy killing more than dying, might I humbly suggest looking up one of our wonderfull trainers in the AH Trainers Corp.  A few sessions with them can do wonders.

[dirtdart]

Gentlemen, I am always up for training.  Lute, I know you have blasted on more than one occasion.  I go for the HO if the other guy faces me.  Otherwise preservation of e an altitude is my priority.  Yes, Rolling Thunder dies in droves, lol, but we do win maps and capture bases.  We finally got rid of that crazy map on Saturday.  Someone has to do it I suppose. 

I know, I my end, I enjoy the tenacious fight, and really don't care if I make it back.  Since my own life, just my poor digital one, is not at stake I keep trying, even with chunks of plane missing.  I appreciate the position of those who fly this game tactically and concentrate on being as real as possible.  I for one just don't have the time or the patience to take off a sector away, fly to high alt, and then try to mix it up for a base defense.

Slapshot, I extend the hand, maybe our sights will cross in the blue or MW.  I thought the comment about my score was irrelevant to the discussion and it set me off on my diatribe.  I again appreciate the preservation of the realism to this game and admittedly I would not HO someone in real life in a mossie because the thing has hardly and armor.  I fly a mossie or a pony, pretty much that is it, leaning more to the mossie. 

[50CalDr]

Here is post I made to our squad forum recently.  This is as true as you believe.  I knew these men all to briefly but do not doubt their word regarding their experiences as they spoke of them infrequently:

"Over the years, I won't say how many, I've known a couple of "Jug" pilots.  Both are sadly gone.  One was a neighbor to my inlaws who always brought a cold beer and a story to my late father-in-law while he was mowing.  Bill was shot down late in the war on his 2nd sortie and sat out the last few months of the war as a POW.  The other was Ed Shearer, the head shooting instructer for the NSCA( National Sporting Clays Association), and member of the Skeet Shooting Hall of Fame.  He was a P-47 pilot in the Pacific.  Over some beers in a small town Iowa bar after a shooting clinic, he told us about his first encounter with a Japanese fighter. Sorry the story lacks specifics because I didn't think to ask at the time. He was flying a patrol and was seperated from his flight briefly when he encountered the Japanese plane. As he told it: " I turned towards the Jap, and I saw him turn towards me.  I gave the P-47 full throttle and started to line up the Zero in my sights."  He said: "As soon as I had him lined up I opened fire, the Jap pilot did the same because I could see flames shooting from his guns."  He went on to say: "well, there we were blazing away at each other, head on at full speed, when I saw that his guns stopped shooting.  Within seconds my guns were empty and the Jap was still coming.  He passed me on the left side close enough that I could see his face, and I shall never forget the stunned look he had, because I probably had that same look."  He said: "He looked very young, just like me. And he must have been inexperienced, just like me.  Because we both had fired at each other before either of us was in range of our guns. All of our bullets fell somewhere between us."  He finished by saying, "So thats how the world famous skeet shooter and instructer did in his first encounter with the enemy." They were both fine men, and I am blessed to have known them."

It happens through inexperience or bad luck or design.  For me the debate is over.

[SlapShot]

Slapshot, I extend the hand, maybe our sights will cross in the blue or MW.  I thought the comment about my score was irrelevant to the discussion and it set me off on my diatribe.  I again appreciate the preservation of the realism to this game and admittedly I would not HO someone in real life in a mossie because the thing has hardly and armor.  I fly a mossie or a pony, pretty much that is it, leaning more to the mossie. 

DD ... I did not comment on your "score" ... "score" means nothing. I mentioned your "stats" ... which if you look at them, in conjunction with your original statement ... the "stats" do reflect someone who could very well be using the HO on a consistent basis.

Currently ...

Your Kills/Death is .08
Your Kills/Sortie is .06
Your Kills/Hour is 4.64

You are dieing more than you are killing and for each sortie ... you are killing few.

In Fghters you have 70 Kills to 74 Deaths
In Attack you have 53 kills to 69 Deaths

Your overall score is 1336

These stats, along with your statement that you go for the HO anytime someone comes straight at you, to me, truly back up your statement. I was flying Blue yesterday and I swear, 99.99% of the encounters I had ... the guy came straight at me with the intent to HO and did try to take me out with the HO ... not one of them were successful and everyone of them did die within 1 to 2 turns. They died because as Lute pointed out ... I was already 1 move ahead of them while I was spoiling their HO attempt.

My stats ...

Kills/Death is 8.92 (it was 13.something, but base defense against the horde yesterday lowered it)
Kills/Sortie is 2.07
Kills/Hour is 11.66

My over score is 913 ... not far from yours ... that is why "score" means crap ... "stats", on the other hand, can tell a story.

Now, if I flew using your logic, I could almost guarantee that my stats would be very close to your stats and no where near my current stats.

I know the Mossie is a cannon monster, and it's very enticing to try and deal death with them, but try to take your flying to the next level ... dont' sell yourself short. After all, and I am not trying to be mean here ... you current train of thought is not working (with success) and your stats really couldn't get that much lower ... so you have nothing really to lose and everything to gain.

Want to learn the Mossie ... try to hook up with BatFink ... if he is willing ... he makes that plane dance, as does Karnak, but he doesn't fly much anymore I think.

My suggestion ... get out of the Mossie and get in a Spit V, Spit VIII, Spit IX, N1K ... these planes are forgiving and excellent planes to actually learn ACM, including avoiding the HO. Once proficient in one or more of these planes, transference of your learned skills to the Mossie will make flying the Mossie more successful. Worried about the "dweeb" moniker for those rides ... ignore the ignorant fools. Use them as learning tools and then move on to more challenging planes.

See ya in Blue/MW ... one of these days.

[BigPlay]

A true HO shot is when both planes have a guns solution on each other ... at the same time.

No ... that was not an HO.

I have to agree with that. Many times while flying the 110 people start out headed for me for what looked like a HO. Then they sober up and decided to dive underneath me. I generally am able to score some hits on them when they attempt this . Then the whinning begins about how I hoed them. I don't consider it a real HO but others do. My response to them is when you see a 110 expect it to HO. I can't tell you how many people attempt to HO a 110.

[dedalos]

Accept that there are those with the skills and funds to have all the hot computers and good gear, and there are those who make by with what they have.  I play with an older computer, and old joystick, and laugh when I hear people get heart broken and insulted by a HO pass. 

The gas prices make me HO some times.  I never knew, HOing was related to the amount of money in your wallet.  How about credit cards?  If I get close to my limit, would I be HOing more?   

[BigPlay]

The gas prices make me HO some times.  I never knew, HOing was related to the amount of money in your wallet.  How about credit cards?  If I get close to my limit, would I be HOing more?   

Only HO with the Capital One card, otherwise Storch and his boys come out of the woodwork with their pitch forks and torches. Oh yah with their expossed hairy backs as well 

[rip033]

no its not a HO, most of dem is on da skreet..............

[dedalos]

Only HO with the Capital One card, otherwise Storch and his boys come out of the woodwork with their pitch forks and torches. Oh yah with their expossed hairy backs as well