Author Topic: have you ran away from a fight? (speak the truth)  (Read 2324 times)

Offline CAP1

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Re: have you ran away from a fight? (speak the truth)
« Reply #15 on: June 15, 2008, 10:34:01 PM »
   Have you ever ran away from a fight? Have you ever left a buddy in a fight to die, just so you can protect your highly perked ride? If so, what made you run away? A huge furball? A 50+ air raid? Someone you can't stand and never want to fight them? Or were you protecting your #15 kills and wanted to land it?

when i was newer, i have. i used to almost ALWAYS run from higher cons. this was probably a bad thing, as now, almost 2 years playing, i STILL don't know how to fight them. i can deal with almost anysituation, and make most of you guys work before y'all kill me, UNLESS you're dropping from a few k above me. now, i don't run from y'all, but rather i try to make you overshoot, or i try to neutralize your advantage during my avoidance maneuvers. on 2 occasions, i had the attackers run from me once i managed to do this. on one of those occasions, i was bingo fuel, and my former attacker was 5k away and pulling away hard, so i turned away from him and tried to RTB. as i was on short final, wanna guess who was tryin to vulch me? :rofl

anyway, i don't run anymore. i die, i die. i don't die, then i must be getting better :aok

BTW....good thread i think!

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Offline Zazen13

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Re: have you ran away from a fight? (speak the truth)
« Reply #16 on: June 15, 2008, 11:12:26 PM »
I run away anytime it is advantageous to do so. The use of speed to gain or re-gain the initiative or negate an enemy's advantage is the luxury afforded by having the faster plane and/or the most E. It is no different than a more manueverable aircraft using that advantage to turn inside a less manueverable aircraft. The use of a speed or an E advantage to engage and disengage at will and gain seperation is a fundamental core principle of air combat. It is the reason planes over time from WWI to the present have gotten increasingly faster not increasingly tighter turning. Although this may seem counter-intuitive, the runner, not the chaser always retains the initiative, think about it. The runner is the one that has the power to determine if, when, where and to some degree how a fight will occur. If you have ever been led to ack or higher enemy by a runner who then turns to re-engage you know exactly what I mean. To put it another way, the runner is the dog and the chaser is the tail he wags...

The popular mythology of feeling compelled to engage any plane with any other plane and fight until you die irrespective of performace, relative energy and positional advantages/disadvantages,  ignoring available options to do otherwise, is a complete fictional contrivance of gaming and quite rediculous. The vast majority of air combat tactics and dogma, which we endeavor to emulate to a degree, is entirely predicated upon utilizing the advantages or your aircraft to negate those of the opposing aircraft in an effort to destroy it or prevent it from destroying you. To choose not to do so is not really pure air combat at all but some kind of trivialized arcade experience more akin to Ms. Pac Man, Frogger and Asteroids. If everyone adhered to that arcadish perversion of air combat we'd all be best off exclusively flying planes such as zekes and hurri's, the tightest turning plane would win virtually everytime, all other factor's being equal. If the Americans in the Pacific had done so we'd be speaking Japanese in Texas and hailing the Emperor.

The price you pay for flying a faster plane is proportionally poorer turning ability, conversely the price you pay for flying a turnier plane is lower speed. This simple trade-off is the over-arching balancing factor of this game and of the real world of air combat up to the modern era of guided munitions.

For every person I know who is a wonderful turnfighter I know another person who has perfected the art of attaining, maintaining and exploiting the initiative of a faster plane with deadly efficiency. Neither is better or worse than the other, they are simply two facets and approaches to air combat. Both require skill, knowledge and finesse. In reality we all do a little of both every flight, some better than others and to varying degrees of the spectrum.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2008, 12:29:33 AM by Zazen13 »
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Offline Gixer

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Re: have you ran away from a fight? (speak the truth)
« Reply #17 on: June 15, 2008, 11:30:10 PM »
Yes, years ago when I use to E fight for kills and survival, always try and rtb and land as many kills as possible. Thinking that  "Gixer landed XX kills" was the main goal.  If the situation was no hope low fuel,ammo,damage multiple cons and the opportunity was there I'd nose down and run.

These days I like to try and keep with Soviet tactics when and where possible. Not to aimlessly fly around. But prior to the flight, study the map and then select one small sector to sweep or an asset to defend. Then proceed to attack anything and everything that enters the targeted area, whether it's one con or a mission.  My own survival isn't the priority, it's to kill and disrupt as much as possible.


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« Last Edit: June 15, 2008, 11:36:32 PM by Gixer »

Offline Slash27

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Re: have you ran away from a fight? (speak the truth)
« Reply #18 on: June 15, 2008, 11:43:55 PM »
I have fled many a fight and left my wingman to die just because it amuses me.
:lol

Offline Xasthur

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Re: have you ran away from a fight? (speak the truth)
« Reply #19 on: June 15, 2008, 11:44:53 PM »
I prefer to call it a tactical withdrawal, but I do run from fights when I must. I enjoy nothing more than a good dogfight and that is the main aim but if I do find myself being beaten in a fight and the other guy can't land a shot I won't stay there and let him kill me if I can force an error and get out of there.

I also like multiple v 1 engagements but I will fight in a way that I can have a chance of escaping. Any fool can run into a horde with all guns blazing and take a few dolts down with him. The challenge, I think, is putting yourself into challenging situations and getting out again.

Some of the best fun I've had has be in fighting withdrawal. This is not just 'WEP on and high-tail it' but some great fun can be had fighting to keep your squadies clear whilst trying to get out of an area that has become too hot. We've had some great success with our adaptation of the American 'thatch weave' tactic which uses three aircraft instead of two.

The fight is what the game is about, timid running at the first sign of trouble is not the way to play but getting home with your squadies is another part of the game that cannot be overlooked. Perhaps some do not have the same calibre of squadies that I'm lucky enough to have but when one does have a great bunch of guys to wing with getting home together can be just as much fun as throwing yourself head-long into a fight.



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Offline EskimoJoe

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Re: have you ran away from a fight? (speak the truth)
« Reply #20 on: June 15, 2008, 11:57:05 PM »
Last night in Blue I shot down a P-39 in my spit V, took up all my ammunition (most hits!) to finally go down. I ran away from a 190 with 150 MG rounds, until I just decided to turn around and fight him. His P39 buddy came back as we were dancing on the deck (me without any ammunition) and finished me off  :P
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Offline Warchief

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Re: have you ran away from a fight? (speak the truth)
« Reply #21 on: June 15, 2008, 11:57:39 PM »
Why from a fight? Yeah but have to missing a vital part or out of ammo

Never leave a wingman or squad mate unless there is nothing I can do to help.
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But for the most part I fly the Hurrican IIC and there aint no running from anything in that plane. For the most part it is stand and fight because you will end up just dieing anyways. :rock :devil

Offline Lusche

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Re: have you ran away from a fight? (speak the truth)
« Reply #22 on: June 16, 2008, 12:09:50 AM »
I thought I was your sharkbait  :cry :( :cry

But of course you are!  :D
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Offline BaldEagl

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Re: have you ran away from a fight? (speak the truth)
« Reply #23 on: June 16, 2008, 12:10:19 AM »
I'll run if I'm low on ammo or fuel.  I'll never run from a one-on-one and against multiples the only time I'll consider it is if, among the multis, theres both a pure T'n'ber and a speed burner.  In that case I have limited options unless they both s**k.
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Offline AAolds

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Re: have you ran away from a fight? (speak the truth)
« Reply #24 on: June 16, 2008, 12:33:53 AM »
Yes, ive run from a fight.  Reasons why vary.  Missing parts, low ammo and fuel are top reasons.  If im at a total disadvantage, I will extend in hopes of the enemy getting impatient and making a mistake I can use to gain the advantage.  If I see I am greatly outnumbered, I will run.  Once i ran from a fight cause my plane does not have inboard bathroom and I had to drop the kids off at da pool.  Another time I ran from a fight cause the "countryman" near me was...... someone I would rather shoot down than clear their 6.
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Offline iWalrus

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Re: have you ran away from a fight? (speak the truth)
« Reply #25 on: June 16, 2008, 02:31:26 AM »
I always run from a fight. I just like to fly around in little circles near friendly fields. No violence necessary. I know I could do that offline, but I also like conversing on range.
That's all.

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Offline mensa180

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Re: have you ran away from a fight? (speak the truth)
« Reply #26 on: June 16, 2008, 02:46:30 AM »
I run to fights.
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Offline angelsandair

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Re: have you ran away from a fight? (speak the truth)
« Reply #27 on: June 16, 2008, 02:51:18 AM »
I always run from fights, just depends whats going on. If I'm in a Jug and there's a spitty on my 6, I'll run, if he calls me a running dweeb, then I'll respond "DAMN RIGHT" got into the same argument with Karaya, but I'm bearly able to fly now, still not used to the new joystick settings (I stall alot more)
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Offline evenhaim

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Re: have you ran away from a fight? (speak the truth)
« Reply #28 on: June 16, 2008, 03:27:26 AM »
When I'm in the middle of a cool 1vs1 or 1vs2 fight, and 2 or 3 more enemies decide it's time to doggy-pile me but I am faster, I run.
youve run from me 1 on 1 more than once...

and no i never run from a fight im the first to dive in.
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Offline PanosGR

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Re: have you ran away from a fight? (speak the truth)
« Reply #29 on: June 16, 2008, 04:33:10 AM »
No!!!! Never!!! Absolutely not!!  :rofl  :rofl  :rofl  :rofl  :rofl