The price

[Fishu]

I had a good laugh on that 'more planes' statement..
Theres one thing to know: flight models are more advanced in AH.

Though, one serious lack there is with AH... not everyone gets good connection to HTC over to US (some from the same country might have problems too  )
Even more annoying lack is that theres always those more or less boring terrains.
There should be a new terrain for each tour *methinks* (well, now they seem to have..)

...but same lack is with WB and AW as well.. and any other public server game where player is unable to choose the terrain.

[Dead Man Flying]

 

Originally posted by Mickey1992:
How about $1000/month?  Wouldn't that be more profitable?  You can't blame them for picking a price point that was lower than the average monthly bill of a competing product, and yet high enough for them to pay salaries and operational costs.

Your lack of a basic understanding of economics is appalling.

-- Todd/DMF

[Ripsnort]

Value is a standard that varies from individual to individual.

For instance,  I see an old, worn out chair, that I think should have been burned, or thrown out along time ago...you see an antique with over 100 years of fat grannies sitting on it and a hand crafted wood carving on the back that makes it value about $1000 to an antique collector...

Warbird players used to drop $200 a month flying WB's...I can remember paying $5/hour for AW..so, in closing, value is YOUR perception, not society.

If you don't think its worth the money, don't pay it...someone else certainly will.



[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 03-14-2001).]

[Mickey1992]

 

Originally posted by Dead Man Flying:
Your lack of a basic understanding of economics is appalling.

-- Todd/DMF

Personally I find that your decision to attack my post without any supporting argument, or any opinion/argument about the topic at hand at all, to be more unenviable.  

[batdog]

 I like AH. I also like beer. I like to drink beer then go pee on a tree. AH is like a good beer. But if you play alot you gotta go pee. Peeing is good. If you dont pee..it hurts. SO feel free to play AH, drink beer and dont forget to pee.

Batdog

[Dead Man Flying]

 

Originally posted by Mickey1992:
Personally I find that your decision to attack my post without any supporting argument, or any opinion/argument about the topic at hand at all, to be more unenviable.

The point at hand is that you were ignoring the basic economic principles that go into deciding product pricing.  HTC can't charge $1000/month and expect to get over 300 times the revenue from AH.  If they could do that, why in the world wouldn't they do that?

Basic supply and demand.  If HTC raises the price 333 times what it is right now, everyone would stop playing -- think of it as limiting the supply.  That's $0 revenue vs. $1000 revenue from 333 people at $30/month.  Most basically (not assuming things like inelastic demand curves), as price decreases, demand increases, and as price increases, demand decreases.

Assuming HTC knows their niche market well, they're going to price their product in such a way that it balances revenue with marginal costs.  An Internet-based company's costs increase correspondingly with an increase in users due to bandwidth and hardware issues.  As such, while HTC may gather 3000 people at $10/month instead of 1000 people at $30/month, if we assume fixed costs per customer of $5... at $30/month total costs equal $5,000, and at $10/month total costs equal $15,000.  In the meantime, revenue has remained exactly the same.

1000 x 30 ($30,000)- 5000 = $25,000
3000 x 10 ($30,000)- 15000 = $15,000

Of course, compare that to the example of $1000/month you gave:

0 x 1,000 ($0) - 0 = $0.00

Hope that helps,

Todd/DMF

[batdog]

Oh... Eq rots and so does AW3. Aw3 has more events, and a bigger community? Baaa AW3 is dead or dieing. It isnt even close to what it was. AH is far more challnging. EQ is a game I played for close to.. 2yrs? Its about attack rinse repeat. Its the SOS... it has more to do,about level than skill. Its full pre adolencent dweebs that eventualy will annoy you to the point of wanting to go postal on them. I have found that over all it seems like the AH community is more mature...uselly. The game requires alot of skill... real life tactics and uderstanding of concepts such as E, SA, ACM, heck even gun velocity matters...

 I'll pay my 30.00 amonth and do it with a smile. To hell with aw3 (which i really liked/loved at one time) and especialy EQ and its mind numbing camping.

batdog

[This message has been edited by batdog (edited 03-14-2001).]

[Mickey1992]

Todd/DMF,

Thanks for the detailed example of why an decrease in price and the resulting increase in customers will not always lead to more profit.  This will come in handy the next time someone proposes this argument.  

But I think that you can not assume that there will be no customers if the price were $1000/month (33 times current price).  We have all heard of how many people used to spend hundreds of dollars playing another product.  Let's say that it went down to 30 customers.  Using your example:
30 x $1000 ($30,000)- 1500 = $28,500
1000 x $30 ($30,000)- 5000 = $25,000
3000 x $10 ($30,000)- 15000 = $15,000

The point I was trying to make was that I have never felt that HTC was trying to "rip-off" anyone with their current pricing.

[J_A_B]

"Its full pre adolencent dweebs that eventualy will annoy you to the point of wanting to go postal on them"


That statement can apply to AH as much as it applies to ANY online game, and the Internet in general.  ALL online games are full of complainers and generally irate people--AH included.

Somehow it's easier to be a jerk online than in person--probably because the Internet doesn't allow you to see the other person's face.  It dehumanizes us somewhat.


J_A_B

[batdog]

JAB, aye tis true. BUT a game that charges 30.00 amonth and is a full realism flight sim will discourage many/most. The indiv that plays this I hope is the "harcore" flight SIMer and history buff... time will tell I quess.

Batdog

[Westy]

 JAB you and I both know how bad you talk about AH "elsewhere". To be honest, "elsewhere" is where you belong as it suits you more. AW is easier and less complex. And you've been "flying" it for a long time. It's hard to learn something new. Some are up for the challeng and other cringe. Most folks here have flonw AW at one time or another so when you hoist AW3 up as some game.sim to be impressed with you're libel to just get snickers and giggles.
 You're wishes for AH to head in the AW direction is akin to wishing someone would training wheels on your two wheeler so that it feels more like the tricycle you were so used to.

 As for events? Count again. AH has just started out and they've already had more events than AW has had in the same time period ("FR" events mind you). AW just had Nieman (which I would LOVE to do here) and AH just had Afrika'43. AH has several weekly events. AW has one, Warnights, which to be quite honest has an iregular schedule and the guy behind those,  LW,  now has an AH account too      "RR" doesn't count here so the "Rumble Bowl 2000" or "Quad Squad Death Match night" don;t cut it.  It might in AW, FA -2 and at Chuckey Cheeses but compare apples to apples. AH has more players than AW "FR" any day of the week now. And more FR scenario particpants. They had to turn people away in Afrika'43. The last couple of FR events in AW they could't get enough even with asking the RR arenas for "walk-ons"   But in AH there are no "I want a fighter! I'm the best Spitjock in RRE01 and no one has to tell me what to do!"  ...said jock last seen flying off by himself making a bee line for the enemy, tripping thier radar allowing the  "GO" call for them.
 
 The AW most folks knew is withering and dying on the vine. There's alot of reasons for that none of which are the fault of the players who tried to help it.

  -Westy

[Bmer1171]

I don't know about anybody else, but when I was a punk $ss kid I wouldn't pay $30 a month for a game. The reason I pay now is because there are only a few of those types in AH. The AH community is far more mature than those of WB and AW. Yes there are a few cry babies around but at least they keep it on the BB and not in the MA

------------------
Chris "Bmer1171" Toombs
332nd Flying Mongrels
"Don't fly to fight. Fight to fly."

[J_A_B]

Westy--

I do say some negative things about AH, but I'm not trashing it for no reason.

There are some real issues with Aces High that I can't agree with, such as focusing the game on landgrabbing.  There is also an issue regarding how the game reads joystick inputs that I do not necessarily like--I feel they make just flying the plane unnecessarily difficult.  These factors, and a few other things, combine to damage AH's gameplay.

Am I saying AW is a better sim?  Hell no!  I'm the first to admit AW is horribly outdated.  The game as it is belongs in a museum.   AH is a vastly superior piece of technology.

But what does it DO with its better technology?  Nothing!  The gameplay for AH and AW is terribly similar, with only a minor difference on focus.  AH is more focused on a "war"; AW is more geared towards air-to-air combat.  I am not concerned with winning a war between chess pieces or Az and Bz, and there are several negative effects of such a war.  I play these games to FLY, not to be Napoleon.  I don't so much wish for AH to move in the AW direction, as I wish for it to focus more on A2A combat than on total war.

AH, with its great technology and incredible development speed (kudos HTC), could do so much more.  We have controllable carrier fleets and many loadouts and all kinds of radar settings available, and great mission support and a full terrain editor.  Instead, AH sticks you in the MA--I can do that in AW for a fraction of the price, and not need to worry about my country being driven off the map.  

You also forget to mention that I'll happily praise the things AH does well.  I love AH's loadout options and blackouts.  I worship HTC's incredible pace of development.  Just because I point out the things I despise, doesn't mean I don't think the game has its good points.

As for the remarks which basically say I'm the sort of person unwilling to try new things--it can't be farther from the truth.  The very fact that I am trying AH from time to time should prove otherwise.  If that isn't enough, there's the fact that I play all kinda of games, ranging from FPS like CounterStrike and UT to flightsims like AH and AW to RPG's.  I even play Strat games like AOE or RT2, and racing games of all sorts.   I LOVE a new gaming experience.  

I am not some kind of idiot who is incapable of playing a "hard" game.  The fact that AH is hard doesn't bug me--indeed, even as a total newbie I can shoot down more planes than I lose.  What bugs me is when a game makes something difficult, if that task is easy in reality.  What bugs me more is when gameplay moves BACKWARDS from a 14-year-old obsolete game.

I don't normally bring up my own personal issues with AH on these boards, as this isn't the place for it.  I will not go into detail now; this post is already too long and most people aren't interested anyway.  But I will defend myself when someone--deliberately or not--attempts to misrepresent me.

I have considerable respect for you Westy.  That fact that we have a disagreement regarding AH doesn't change that.  I really believe you don't fully understand how I feel--which is to be expected, as I have never fully explained myself anywhere in public.  Up till now I've never had a reason to.  I'll happily do so in Email if you like--just give me your Email address.  My own is  james71@uakron.edu

My apology to anyone who is now irritated at how badly off-topic this post is.

J_A_B

[Dead Man Flying]

 

Originally posted by Mickey1992:
But I think that you can not assume that there will be no customers if the price were $1000/month (33 times current price

I think it's pretty safe to assume that nobody would play if the price happened to be $1000/month.    That's so outrageous that I used it as an insane outlier... to compare profitability there with the other examples is to insinuate that it would be better to charge one person $100,000/month and make a $95,995 profit.  Supply/Demand curves are just that, curves and not straight lines, indicating that demand trails off at an increasing rate as price increases.

Thanks for the 33 vs. 330 thing.  Doy.  hehe.

My original comment was actually responding to your assertion that HTC priced Aces High high enough to pay salaries but low enough to beat out competition.  You suggested that they could become more profitable by charging $1000/month, but chose to do the former instead.

My point was that pricing isn't so simple... raising the price of a product doesn't increase profits.  Assuming elastic demand curves, raising the price too much could diminish demand so substantially that they'd be out of business tomorrow.  The reason AH is $30/month is because it's likely the profit equilibrium point -- the point where profits are maximized and costs are minimized.

-- Todd/DMF

[Wardog]

I fly here for the FM only. Yes if you want an easy sim to fly go to AW. Its not for everyone. What wrong with working for a kill, makes you feel very satisfied.

AW is still useing the FM from 1986 as far as im concerned. And it was great in 1986 to 1995. But Flight models in Sim have come a long way since then.

As for the field capturing in AH, why the hell ya think we got planes?? To stop em from takin fields  

Dog out.........