Author Topic: Jack Bauer--hero or oppressor?  (Read 620 times)

Offline slipknot

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Jack Bauer--hero or oppressor?
« on: June 16, 2008, 11:26:42 AM »
Been watching 24 on DVD. Just got done the first 4 seasons. Great show, obviously. Well written, entertaining, addictive. It's finction, of course, and tends to be repetative in its scare tactics, but it does raise some practical questions.

My official opinion is the Jack Bauer is pretty much the sort of guy we would need if this nation was faced with a catastrophy of genocidal proportions. Sure, he tortures people, but he gets results.

Anybody here think that his sort of tactics are less than acceptable in the real world? I'd like to hear your thoughts. Inevitably, this conversation (before it degrades to insults) will include many references to the 4th amendment. However, when viewed through the lens of national disaster, when, if ever, does 'doing what needs to be done' supercede the legislative intent of our main governing document?

No matter how committed you are to maintaining the integrity of the constitution, there has to be, and always is, a point where following our most sacred rules becomes absurdly impractical. Giving up a million lives just so that the civil rights of one almost certainly guilty man are not violated is the most basic example--but where is this point, and when, if ever, have we reached it?
« Last Edit: June 16, 2008, 11:30:46 AM by slipknot »

Offline AKIron

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Re: Jack Bauer--hero or oppressor?
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2008, 11:30:43 AM »
People who act outside of the law should not be expect to be protected by that law or to be immune from prosecution. That said, "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

The law isn't always good, sometimes it's even evil.
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Offline lasersailor184

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Re: Jack Bauer--hero or oppressor?
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2008, 11:31:47 AM »
Sometimes?
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Offline slipknot

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Re: Jack Bauer--hero or oppressor?
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2008, 11:43:03 AM »
Sometimes?

I'd say that it's not sometimes, but usually either misguided in its intent, or completely defective in its application.

The government's main purpose should be to minimize its own hold over the populace--in other words, to balance the need for control with the natural desire for freedom of action, and to do everything possible to err on the side of freedom. Governments should do as little as humanly possible while maintaining peace and order, not as much as possible without precipitating civil revolt.

currently, I think our system is closer to causing revolt than doing as little as possible to maintain order.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2008, 12:01:52 PM by slipknot »

Offline AKIron

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Re: Jack Bauer--hero or oppressor?
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2008, 12:00:24 PM »
Laws like not committing murder, bearing false witness, etc... are good in any society or situation. Kidnapping and torture, against which there are laws, also which Jack seems to find necessary every season, aren't good. However, who here wouldn't find those justified to save a city, your city, from nuclear devastation?
Here we put salt on Margaritas, not sidewalks.

Offline Yknurd

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Re: Jack Bauer--hero or oppressor?
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2008, 12:14:55 PM »
He's white, therefore oppressor.
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Offline midnight Target

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Re: Jack Bauer--hero or oppressor?
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2008, 12:15:11 PM »
My current city or the old one?

Offline JB88

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Re: Jack Bauer--hero or oppressor?
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2008, 12:18:31 PM »
shades:  idiots or nifty little cover stories?

this thread is doomed.
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word.

Offline slipknot

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Re: Jack Bauer--hero or oppressor?
« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2008, 12:20:44 PM »
shades:  idiots or nifty little cover stories?



Can't really be called shades when you have no other active accounts, now can it?

Offline lasersailor184

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Re: Jack Bauer--hero or oppressor?
« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2008, 12:27:05 PM »
I'll let you in on the board secret then Slipknot.  88 is actually a rather long winded and very successful shade of Ripsnort.
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Offline CAP1

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Re: Jack Bauer--hero or oppressor?
« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2008, 12:29:29 PM »
People who act outside of the law should not be expect to be protected by that law or to be immune from prosecution. That said, "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

The law isn't always good, sometimes it's even evil.


hhmm..the question was about a fictional character.....your reply would lead me to believe that you also then think The Shadow was wrong? it too was fiction, but the bad gus knew better than to mess with him :D
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Offline slipknot

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Re: Jack Bauer--hero or oppressor?
« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2008, 12:34:02 PM »
hhmm..the question was about a fictional character.....your reply would lead me to believe that you also then think The Shadow was wrong? it too was fiction, but the bad gus knew better than to mess with him :D

The question was about a fictional character but it implicates situations that are at least possible, if not probable, given the current state of affairs. Jack Bauer only serves to put a face on the hypothetical. The question of how to treat hostile witnesses in times of crisis is anything but fictional.

I figured this would be obivous to most, CAP1... I guess I just didn't anticipate the CEO of Bubba Gump Shrimp to weigh in on the issue.

Offline CAP1

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Re: Jack Bauer--hero or oppressor?
« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2008, 12:36:36 PM »
The question was about a fictional character but it implicates situations that are at least possible, if not probable, given the current state of affairs. Jack Bauer only serves to put a face on the hypothetical. The question of how to treat hostile witnesses in times of crisis is anything but fictional.

I figured this would be obivous to most, CAP1... I guess I just didn't anticipate the CEO of Bubba Gump Shrimp to weigh in on the issue.

hey!!
i haven't made CEO yet!! :rofl

seriously...it was my attempt at wise arsedness......sorry.....

btw...hero if he's gettin the job done
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Offline JB88

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Re: Jack Bauer--hero or oppressor?
« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2008, 12:41:49 PM »
Can't really be called shades when you have no other active accounts, now can it?

should you called anything else when you hide behind a new identity while making an attack on another member of this board either.

show your face and you'll get the cred.  otherwise, as far as i am concerned, you is a shade, which some might say is another word for a coward.


this thread is doomed.
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To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield. -Ulysses.

word.

Offline Yknurd

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Re: Jack Bauer--hero or oppressor?
« Reply #14 on: June 16, 2008, 12:47:40 PM »
oooooooooh
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