The Treaty of Lisbon 2008

[Dowding]

I would argue it is the 'way of mankind'. Global history backs my assertion up - you were being a little too specific.

[soda72]

Didn't the south vote 'no' back in 1861?

 

darn yankees wouldn't let it go though...

[texasmom]

Voice of the people ?

862,415 have voted no ,with a total population EU of 497,198,740

How can this be representative ?


What piss me the most is the main reason why the Irish have voted no :
They were afraid to give money to new member EU like poland latvia ...

When Ireland sucked money from EU since decades.
This is just disgusting.

The Irish listened to the voice of their own people ahead of the 'hey, lets surrender all our sovereignty to the EU crowd.'    Who cares how many folks are in Europe?  Ireland is responsible first to the Irish!

[68Wooley]

It does bring up the age old argument about the appropriateness of referendums:

Should you allow the populace to decide on issues they don't fully understand or should you leave that to the officials they elected specifically for that purpose? Of course, the fact that the officials in question are usually equally ill-informed doesn't help. In this case there also seems to have been something of a hijacking of the issues into a more general EU bashing by the Euro-sceptic faction.

And I have to admit, I do find it rich that the country that has - probably - gained most from EU membership at other countries expense has gotten cold feet when the time came to expend some of their new-found wealth on the new member states.

[straffo]

The Irish listened to the voice of their own people ahead of the 'hey, lets surrender all our sovereignty to the EU crowd.'    Who cares how many folks are in Europe?  Ireland is responsible first to the Irish!

why don't they leave !

they want the money but nothing else ?

[storch]

I would argue it is the 'way of mankind'. Global history backs my assertion up - you were being a little too specific.

what?  aren't we specifically discussing the EU proposal.  that has absolutely nothing to do with mankind.

[texasmom]

why don't they leave! they want the money but nothing else ?

LOL ~ why don't they leave their own country?  That's absurd.
Or do you mean the EU?  I do think that is worth considering for them!

Wait, or do you mean they should leave Europe entirely ~ just pack their stuff up & leave their land to more congenial folks... one's who would go along with every Tom, Dick & Harry that strolls along?

[straffo]

I'm passionate because I pay tax for the EU and in return I get nothing.

I'm passionate also because I feel cheated , I don't understand why 800k people of a foreign country should have more power than all the others

You should know that in the current way EU is leaded a german or a french value a lot less than an Irish

[texasmom]

Sorry, that was a cheap shot that I took, and I hoped to have it deleted before it was read.
You're right in feeling passionately about it... But Ireland must be afforded the right to believe just as passionately about it on behalf of their own countrymen!

*edit* if you feel cheated by paying taxes & getting nothing in return ~ it's the responsiblity of France to take that up with the EU on your behalf!  Just as Ireland is doing.  Seems like they're an example to follow... not the little guy to bash because they've got gumption!

[straffo]

Yep,


Usually the vote for a EU treaty as it has almost zero impact locally is often a cheap and not risky way to protest against a government between real election.

I would be very surprised if more than 10% of the 800k people have read and understood the document.

[texasmom]

Yep,
Usually the vote for a EU treaty as it has almost zero impact locally is often a cheap and not risky way to protest against a government between real election.
I would be very surprised if more than 10% of the 800k people have read and understood the document.

How is that relevant to their right to vote 'No?'
If Yes was the only option, a vote wouldn't be necessary!

[Shuckins]

This is essentially the same treaty that France and Holland rejected two years ago.  It's been rewritten in an attempt to befuddle the opposition:  some critics state that it has been simply rearranged in order to make it incomprehensible to the public.  Also, some of the national legislatures of the countries voting on it, did not allow a national referendum.  This essentially takes the decision-making process out of the hands of the voting public, who don't know what's good for them.  Thus, those citizens who are opposed to it are, for all intents and purposes, disenfranchised.

The "problem" with Ireland, however, is that it's constitution requires a national referendum on matters such as this.

Ireland doesn't deserve the sole blame for this.  A large number of European countries have yet to vote on it, one way or the other.

[Dowding]

Don't be obtuse, Storch. Your point really related to human nature, a thread running right through human history. By saying it is the 'European way', you were effectively insinuating it was an idiosyncratic behaviour intrinisic to European politics. It isn't.

[mg1942]

I now have fingerprints on my monitor trying to crush the ant in mg1942's signature.

 

[Toad]

Yeah, why should ordinary everyday people have a voice in matters that affect them? 


It's disgusting.

Hey! I have an idea! Let the UN as a whole vote for Ireland! Yeah, that's the ticket! Whatever the UN General Assembly decides, Ireland has to do. Perfect. And fair.