The EU poofers?

[bj229r]

If people/countries could be made self-sufficient and successful just by GIVING them money, the 6 or 7 TRILLION the US has spent on the 'war on poverty' begun in 1965 would have eliminated such in our country--Ireland was helped out a LOT by Europe, but they applied radical (well, radical for Europe) free-market reforms, actually made themselves FRIENDLY to corporations who wished to set up shop there, and turned around generations of population exodus of Ireland's best and brightest. Put yourself in their shoes: Look at the robust economy of Ireland, THEN look at double-digit unemployment of Europe, endless labor strikes, 35 hour work-weeks, laws that actually preVENT you from firing incompetent sloths---what is to be gained for Ireland by joining the EU? (Being mindful that they have a bit of a history of NOT liking remote rulers )

[Pei]

If people/countries could be made self-sufficient and successful just by GIVING them money, the 6 or 7 TRILLION the US has spent on the 'war on poverty' begun in 1965 would have eliminated such in our country--Ireland was helped out a LOT by Europe, but they applied radical (well, radical for Europe) free-market reforms, actually made themselves FRIENDLY to corporations who wished to set up shop there, and turned around generations of population exodus of Ireland's best and brightest. Put yourself in their shoes: Look at the robust economy of Ireland, THEN look at double-digit unemployment of Europe, endless labor strikes, 35 hour work-weeks, laws that actually preVENT you from firing incompetent sloths---what is to be gained for Ireland by joining the EU? (Being mindful that they have a bit of a history of NOT liking remote rulers )

While I can agree with many of your points you should be aware that the referendum was not about Ireland joining the EU - Ireland is already part of the EU and has been for a while (and has benefitted tremendously from EU funding). The referendum was about ratification of the Lisbon Treaty which centralizes power in the Eu and weakens the power of individual nation states. The Lisbon Treaty is in effect the new EU constitution (that was rejected by referendums in France and Denmark) reborn.

[straffo]

If people/countries could be made self-sufficient and successful just by GIVING them money, the 6 or 7 TRILLION the US has spent on the 'war on poverty' begun in 1965 would have eliminated such in our country--Ireland was helped out a LOT by Europe, but they applied radical (well, radical for Europe) free-market reforms, actually made themselves FRIENDLY to corporations who wished to set up shop there, and turned around generations of population exodus of Ireland's best and brightest. Put yourself in their shoes: Look at the robust economy of Ireland, THEN look at double-digit unemployment of Europe, endless labor strikes, 35 hour work-weeks, laws that actually preVENT you from firing incompetent sloths---what is to be gained for Ireland by joining the EU? (Being mindful that they have a bit of a history of NOT liking remote rulers )

you summed it : they got all they can from EU and set up a corporate friendly environment because their other expenses where paid by EU.

That's cheating in my book.

[bj229r]

I'm gonna look into that (how much) when I can get access to high speed today, but if Ireland can create a business-friendly environment which improves the WHOLE country, why can't others?

[straffo]

We can if Ireland help us.

[Nashwan]

if Ireland can create a business-friendly environment which improves the WHOLE country, why can't others?

From 1984 to 1992, the EU gave Ireland subsidies of 4 - 5.5% of GDP per year. The US currently raises 2.7% of GDP in federal corporation taxes.  If someone were to give the US grants of about 5% of GDP, the US could afford to get rid of corporate taxes all together, and still have about $300 billion left over.

As to why other countries in Europe can't do the same, one disadvantage many of them have is that far from being net recipients of EU money, they have to make contributions. Somebody has to pay for Ireland and Spain and others to have all that free money.

There's no doubt Ireland used the money they were being given wisely, but it's much easier to cut tax rates when foreign governments are pouring money in to your treasury.

[Dowding]

Nashwan just nailed it, as usual.

[lazs2]

Thats all fine but did the money have strings attached to it?   In other words.. we will give you money but in the end you will have to get rid of your autonomy and subject yourself to rule from abroad.  From other countries.

It is one thing to give aid... it is quite another to then expect to be ruled by the people who gave you money to help you out.   

If you want to have a united states of europe then just do it... get everyone together.. have a new constitution that covers all the countries and elect a ruler.   

If you want it to be an economic union only then says so.   Elect a board and then give out loans with a contract attached.  If a country won't accept the contract then don't give em the money.   If they do accept the money then hold em to the contract.

lazs

[Torque]

If someone were to give the US grants of about 5% of GDP, the US could afford to get rid of corporate taxes all together, and still have about $300 billion left over.

well... being able to print the world's reserve currency for nothing is the same thing as free money.

the fraud allows them to escape the gravity of fair economics... as they can run twin deficits and at the same time lower taxes and the citizens don't feel the pain... the fraud works as long as other countries are generous enough to buy up the empire's debt in the form of t-bills.

also... by forcing other hardworking countries to hold these dollars as a reserve currency and then by systematically devaluing the currency by 10% a year is simple an imperial tax in the form of exporting inflation.

that's why the eu and the euro were formed... to stop subsidizing the empire's free lunch... and it looks like it is working.

when you subsidize something you just get more of it...

[Nilsen]

Wonder what happens if we start to sell oil in euros. There are talks of this if the dollar does not recover. It could go both ways actually.