Spit 14

[Karnak]

Here is my verbose, and as well researched as is possible for this game, thread about Unperking the Spitfire Mk XIV.

And the opening post:

Here are what I think are the relevant statistics.  I listed all the perk fighters because the Spitfire Mk XIV is perked and should be compared in kill/death ratio and usage with its fellow perk fighters.  I selected the unperked fighters by picking high usage, powerful fighters that, with the exception of the La-7, tend to draw more experienced and better players to them.  I think that using this selection of unperked fighters is fair as the people that tend to fly perk planes tend to be at least moderately experienced and to fly in a more conservative manner.  I included both the post-perk Ta152H-1 and pre-perk F4U-1C as a comparison with the Spitfire Mk XIV's current performance.


Late War Tour 96, 1-01-08 to 1-31-08

Perked fighters in order of their kill/death ratios:

Tempest has 6136 Kills of All models and all models have 945 Kills of Tempest. 6.49 to 1 kill/death ratio.

Me 262 has 4103 Kills of All models and all models have 698 Kills of Me 262. 5.88 to 1 kill/death ratio.

Me 163B has 790 Kills of All models and all models have 160 Kills of Me 163B. 4.94 to 1 kill/death ratio.

F4U-1C has 9910 Kills of All models and all models have 3875 Kills of F4U-1C. 2.56 to 1 kill/death ratio.

F4U-4 has 2754 Kills of All models and all models have 1256 Kills of F4U-4. 2.19 to 1 kill/death ratio.

Spitfire Mk XIV has 1454 Kills of All models and all models have 1139 Kills of Spitfire Mk XIV. 1.28 to 1 kill/death ratio.


Unperked fighters with high kill/death ratios and medium to high usage, in order of their kill/death ratios:

Bf 109K-4 has 9344 Kills of All models and all models have 5981 Kills of Bf 109K-4. 1.56 to 1 kill/death ratio.

Typhoon IB has 17053 Kills of All models and all models have 11094 Kills of Typhoon IB. 1.54 to 1 kill/death ratio.

Ta 152H has 2999 Kills of All models and all models have 2042 Kills of Ta 152H. 1.47 to 1 kill/death ratio.

Ki-84-Ia has 9016 Kills of All models and all models have 6224 Kills of Ki-84-Ia. 1.45 to 1 kill/death ratio.

P-38J has 6562 Kills of All models and all models have 4525 Kills of P-38J. 1.45 to 1 kill/death ratio.

Fw 190D-9 has 13943 Kills of All models and all models have 9865 Kills of Fw 190D-9. 1.41 to 1 kill/death ratio.

La-7 has 33201 Kills of All models and all models have 26480 Kills of La-7. 1.25 to 1 kill/death ratio.

F4U-1A has 6568 Kills of All models and all models have 5381 Kills of F4U-1A. 1.22 to 1 kill/death ratio.



Tour 15, 4-01-01 to 4-30-01, the final tour with an unperked F4U-1C:

F4U-1C has 27717 Kills of All models and all models have 20022 Kills of F4U-1C. 1.38 to 1 kill/death ratio.



What do these statistics tell us?  One, the Spitfire Mk XIV has, by far, the lowest kill/death ratio of any perked fighter.  Two, the Spitfire Mk XIV has the lowest usage of any perked fighter save the Me163, and that is limited to one base per country. Three, unique among perk fighters, the Spitfire Mk XIV has a lower kill/death ratio than many unperked fighters. Four, the perked Spitfire Mk XIV has a lower kill/death ratio than the recently unperked Ta152H-1.  Five, the perked Spitfire Mk XIV has a lower kill/death ratio than the unperked F4U-1C did despite the fact that the F4U-1C was at the time, by far, the most popular fighter and was used by more unskilled players than any other fighter.


What do I think an unperked Spitfire Mk XIV would be like?  It would probably see higher usage in Spitfires than any of them other than the Spitfire Mk XVI and Spitfire Mk VIII, though the Spitfire Mk IX might also see heavier usage.  It would probably have the highest kill/death ratio of any Spitfire.  I doubt it would be a popular fighter after the initial "Ooh, it's free!" period had worn off and would instead find a solid place in the second tier of fighters used by more experienced players who can manage the quirks of these fighters.  It does not handle like any other Spitfire and would be offputting to most casual Spitfire users.

I think the Spitfire Mk XIV is a good fighter, but nothing worth spending perk points on.  As such, it should follow the Ta152H-1's example and be unperked.

[Xasthur]

I support this motion! The only time I've run into a Spit 14 at a high altitude was when I was up there in a 152. What could have been a great fight turned into a 2 turn 'Oops, Spit lost its position better dive to the deck from 30k' waste of time.

Perhaps if the perk is removed (not that the 10 - 14 perks it usually carries in particularly inhibitive) people won't fly it like girls and dive for the deck at the first sign of losing their advantage.

To be honest, I've only shot down a few Spit 14s.... the rest have snapped their wings off in close proximity to me. I don't see the Spit 14 as any real threat and certainly no more so than the Spit 16 at common altitudes.

[BaldEagl]

To be honest, I've only shot down a few Spit 14s.... the rest have snapped their wings off in close proximity to me. I don't see the Spit 14 as any real threat and certainly no more so than the Spit 16 at common altitudes.

Oh yeah... there is that not to love.  Done that this camp.  The darned thing carries so much speed you've really got to be careful not to overload and snap the wings off.

[Yossarian]

I say unperk it.  Those stats by Karnak are extremely convincing.

[hijack]Why does the Spitfire 14 lose its wings more easily than other Spitfires?[/hijack]

<S>

Yossarian

[Latrobe]

Even I "The All-Mighty SpittyDweeb!" think the 14 should be unperked and the 16 perked.

[Fruda]

I say unperk it.  Those stats by Karnak are extremely convincing.

[hijack]Why does the Spitfire 14 lose its wings more easily than other Spitfires?[/hijack]

<S>

Yossarian

The stats really just mean that many people who fly it don't actually know how to use it properly. When you use it the way it's supposed to be used, it's an outright monster, and the perk price is more than reasonable. It's got speed. It's got ridiculous acceleration and climb rate. It turns well. Its aileron performance is excellent. Its guns package is fantastic. It also has decent range, to boot.

It's not meant for low-altitude drudge fights at stall speeds, which is where I almost always encounter them. It's an E fighter through and through, quite evenly matched with the F4U-4 Corsair. And let us not forget that aside from turn rate at low altitude, the XIV outclasses the XVI in every respect (guns package is the same, of course).

[Lusche]

The stats really just mean that many people who fly it don't actually know how to use it properly.

Again, you can say that about many, many other planes in game. Actually most planes stats suffer from people who do know how to fly them properly. There is no reason the Spit 14 has a proportional higher number of pilots not being able to utilize it's strenghts than other planes - The fact that it is already perked does keep the ever crashing 2-weekers out and usually results in some more cautious flying (don't lose that perks!) by the other pilots.

And let's not forget why the concept of "perk" was introduced at all:

The perk system is a way for HTC to introduce some interesting but otherwise unbalancing planes on a limited basis but the benefits go deeper than that.  Perk planes (and vehicles) would be things like Me 262s, Ta 152s, Tempests, B-29s, Ar 234s, Tiger IIs, etc.  These are interesting rides but would be very unbalancing if they were available on an unlimited basis.  So there won't be unlimited availability but they'll be available as bonuses or perks every so often.

It's about the effect the plane has on the MA. And yes, looking at the Stats is a very valid way to examine how a given plane is having on the MA's. And it's a quite objective one:



Perk fighters are marked in red, blue is the now unperked Ta 152. You also should bear in mind that many planes with even lower K/D do suffer from the fact that they are used for a lot of ground work - bombing CV's, porking fields and other suicide runs. This is not the case with the Spit 14, which is a pure fighter without any ord loadout.

Some absolute numbers from that year

F4U-V 123,000 kills
Tempest 84,000 kills
Me 262 49,000 kills
F4U-4 43,000 kills
Me 163 19,000 kills
Spit XIV 17,000 kills

Note that the XIV has even less kills than the highly restricted Me 163




The Spit 14 is very comparable in pure performance to the 109K. Yes, on paper it is better in some aspects, but that alone justifies a lower ENY, not a PERK status.

[Banshee7]

thats why i love you lusche    all these colorful charts and stats

[MajIssue]

I have to agree (reluctantly <S>) with Lusche... down low they perform like a spit IX. Above 15K the XIV is in its element. If only I wouldn't get so greedy when I'm in one and get down in the dirt! 

[Karnak]

Its aileron performance is excellent.

How so?  Spitfire aileron performance, other than the Mk XVI and Mk I, are midrange.  The Mk XIV's massive torque actually prevents it from rolling against the torque when going fast.

[whels]

Spit14, is a monster 15k or higher.  But where MA fights are its a pure dog, and its fuel guzzlin engine makes it avery short range fighter.  The only saving grace for it down low in a fight is its climb rate.

the other spits are better MA fighters  then the 14 is @ MA alt fights.

[VansCrew1]

The spit14 is the P51 or 190D of the spitfires. All is has is speed.



 

[2fly]

Since when was two hispano lazers nothing special?   


<S>...-Gixer

Exactly.  The pair of .50s riding side car are no joke either.  And thats not to mention turning, climb rate, speed, and acceleration.  Little things like those cant be important.

[Karnak]

Exactly.  The pair of .50s riding side car are no joke either.  And thats not to mention turning, climb rate, speed, and acceleration.  Little things like those cant be important.

Yes, yet the Spitfire Mk XIV is practically unused and has a horrible K/D ratio for a perk plane.  Maybe, just maybe, there are aspects of performance that you aren't thinking of?

And FYI, it doesn't turn particularly well.

[Latrobe]

The spit14 is the P51 or 190D of the spitfires. All is has is speed.



 

Until it gets up to 10K+. Fought 2 Spit 16's in a Spit 14 one time at 10K, and was able to hold them off until our horde caught up with me. Killed 1 of them and the other RTB'd smoking. One of my favorite sorties.  Even got into a turn fight with a 109 (forget what model, think it was one of the G's). Fight went on for a good 6-7 mins before I ran out of fuel. The 109 let me go to, which was very admirable.

The Spit 14 is the worst of all Spitfires in the turn.....until you get it up high