Spit 14

[Gixer]

Love the way dweebfire sticks still find something to complain about with (other then for a couple other perk rides) easily the two best planes in the game Mk.XIV & MkXVI.

Climb rates touching 5,000 fpm, speed 350mph+,maneuverability,hispanos and your still not happy? 

You can't take anything from K/D for any aircraft as a indicator of performance. Luckily top tier rides attract newbies and those that like to fly easy mode. Hence they are always going to have a bad K/D compared to the planes actual ability which is phenomenal compared to almost anything else.


<S>...-Gixer

[Lusche]

Love the way dweebfire sticks still find something to complain about with (other then for a couple other perk rides) easily the two best planes in the game Mk.XIV & MkXVI.

Climb rates touching 5,000 fpm, speed 350mph+,maneuverability,hispanos and your still not happy? 

You can't take anything from K/D for any aircraft as a indicator of performance. Luckily top tier rides attract newbies and those that like to fly easy mode. Hence they are always going to have a bad K/D compared to the planes actual ability which is phenomenal compared to almost anything else.


<S>...-Gixer

Your logic is flawed.
First, it's not about aircraft theoretical performance (which is more than mere pure numbers, handling is very important too), but the impact of a plane on gameplay. Spit XiV has none. Why perking a planes that isn't only rarely used, but doesn't win it's fights more than the "average" plane.

Second have the other perked "top tier" planes such a high k/d when compared to the Spit 14. And newbies can't fly the 14 because of ot perk status, and the number clearly prove that they are not trying. It's undoubtable that much more newbies fly the unperked spit XVI, the La-7, the N1k, yet the k/d's are almost the same...

[BaldEagl]

Climb rates touching 5,000 fpm, speed 350mph+,maneuverability,hispanos and your still not happy? 

Climb rates for both the XVI and the XIV are closer to 3500 ft/min without WEP.  The XVI actually out-climbs the XIV from ~18-23K but the XIV's better on both sides of that.

[wrongwayric]

1 thing i noticed when testing the 14 was a habit to go flat between 16 and 18k on power due to the supercharger not kicking in till about 18k. You really have to manage your fuel well in the MA also with the burn rate being totally against you. When you put all the MA handicaps in place the spit 14 in this day and age of the MA should not be perked at all. Perk the spit 16 IMO.

I think if you unperked it you'd start seeing it lurking up way high like it used to and picking unsuspecting victims off at will. The reason it didn't show a high usage in 2007 is due to the facts i and others have stated. Why fly a perk plane that is meant to perform above 15k when you can fly an unperked bird for free and all the fights are 15k or lower?

[Lusche]

I think if you unperked it you'd start seeing it lurking up way high like it used to and picking unsuspecting victims off at will. The reason it didn't show a high usage in 2007 is due to the facts i and others have stated. Why fly a perk plane that is meant to perform above 15k when you can fly an unperked bird for free and all the fights are 15k or lower?

It will see more usage for sure, and that's no bad thing as such. But it's very doubtful that it would go from "hardly encountered" to "dominating" status. An unperked 14 would probaly still not even come anywhere close to Spit ( or 16 usage numbers.
 
There were similar arguments when the TA 152 was still perked, based on it's massive armament and better high alt performance. But after the perk status was gone, we didn't see that huge raise in numbers, and not much change in K/D.

[Gixer]

Your logic is flawed.
First, it's not about aircraft theoretical performance (which is more than mere pure numbers, handling is very important too), but the impact of a plane on gameplay. Spit XiV has none. Why perking a planes that isn't only rarely used, but doesn't win it's fights more than the "average" plane.

Second have the other perked "top tier" planes such a high k/d when compared to the Spit 14. And newbies can't fly the 14 because of ot perk status, and the number clearly prove that they are not trying. It's undoubtable that much more newbies fly the unperked spit XVI, the La-7, the N1k, yet the k/d's are almost the same...

Flawed logic? It can't be any simpler.

Impact on gameplay? I'm not talking about one dweeb rides impact on gameplay. I'm talking about the Mk.XIV & XVI performance. They are two of the very best rides in the game performance wise plus they have handling to boot. My other point was that luckily they attract mostly newbies and those that like easy mode, of course not the Mk.XIV it died off when HT in it's wisdom introduced the Mk.XVI perk free. Like the Mk.VIII has killed of the Mk.IX.

Same deal for the other top tier rides you mentioned, though those two take a tiny bit more skill to do well in. Basically point being that Spitfires other then for a couple of perk rides are the easiest modes in the game for getting kills in.

Hence I was originally laughing at the comments that the dweebfire isn't all that dweeby because of what ever reason they can come up with. Usually it's "Because I always fly against the horde"  


Eagl, obviously I was referring to it's max ability with WEP being near 5,000fpm. Not without, which is still closer to 4,000fpm then 3,500fpm but what's a couple hundred feet when you have hispanos.

18-23k Does anyone actually care about performance levels at this alt? If you can find something worthy to shoot at 20k+ have fun.


<S>...-Gixer

[Bronk]

18-23k Does anyone actually care about performance levels at this alt? If you can find something worthy to shoot at 20k+ have fun.


<S>...-Gixer

Ohh you mean where the XIV just starts getting into it's element?

[Ack-Ack]

Love the way dweebfire sticks still find something to complain about with (other then for a couple other perk rides) easily the two best planes in the game Mk.XIV & MkXVI.



<S>...-Gixer

People forget about the Spitfire Mk IX as well, it's a beast above 20k and shines the higher it goes.


ack-ack

[Karnak]

Flawed logic? It can't be any simpler.

Impact on gameplay? I'm not talking about one dweeb rides impact on gameplay. I'm talking about the Mk.XIV & XVI performance. They are two of the very best rides in the game performance wise plus they have handling to boot. My other point was that luckily they attract mostly newbies and those that like easy mode, of course not the Mk.XIV it died off when HT in it's wisdom introduced the Mk.XVI perk free. Like the Mk.VIII has killed of the Mk.IX.

There are many things you have wrong here.

1) The handling on the Spitfire MK XIV is not at all benign.  That you think it is just makes it clear you have never flown one, and given your derogatory attitude towards it you probably have a superiority complex justifying yourself.

2) How can you claim that it attracts newbies when it is hardly used at all?

3) The Mk XIV never died off because it never had significant usage.  It started off dead.  The introduction of the Mk XVI had no effect on the usage of the Mk XIV.  Well, perhaps a few more sorties by the Mk XIV from people confused by the similar Roman numerals of the Mk XIV and Mk XVI.

4) The Mk VIII didn't kill off the Mk IX, the Mk XVI killed off the Mk IX with a very little help from the Mk VIII.

Same deal for the other top tier rides you mentioned, though those two take a tiny bit more skill to do well in. Basically point being that Spitfires other then for a couple of perk rides are the easiest modes in the game for getting kills in.

There you go again, proving you know nothing of the Mk XIV's handling.  I won't argue your point about the Mk VIII and Mk XVI.

Hence I was originally laughing at the comments that the dweebfire isn't all that dweeby because of what ever reason they can come up with. Usually it's "Because I always fly against the horde" 

And there your superiority complex rears its head again.

18-23k Does anyone actually care about performance levels at this alt? If you can find something worthy to shoot at 20k+ have fun.

And the performance of the Mk XIV above 23,000ft is the only possible reason to perk it, but there aren't any fights up there for it.  So why perk it for nonexistent fights?

[Karnak]

And Gixer, the best piston fighter in the game is the F4U-4.  The Spitfire Mk XIV isn't even in consideration.

[Gixer]

Superiority Complex? 

Sorry I ignored all your points after that.


<S>...-Gixer

[Karnak]

Superiority Complex? 

Sorry I ignored all your points after that.


<S>...-Gixer

Then you're an idiot.  You think being smarmy and calling people who like Spitfires "Spitdweebs" and making blatantly false statements that don't even bear up under the most cursory scrutiny makes for such a strong argument that you can't even bother to read a counter argument just because somebody pointed out your superiority complex?

[Fruda]

And Gixer, the best piston fighter in the game is the F4U-4.  The Spitfire Mk XIV isn't even in consideration.

Based on whitepaper statistics, the only thing the F4U-4 really does that much better than the Spitfire Mk. XIV is low speed, low alt turning with full flaps.


The XIV easily turns better up high, and it can "float". It's got a better guns package. It climbs better. It accelerates faster. It turns better sans flaps.

The F4U-4 turns better with full flaps (as I said before). It has better zoom characteristics. It's a bit faster at certain altitudes. It has more ammunition. It also has greater range.


Every fight I've been in against an F4U-4 in my Spitfire Mk. XIV, DA or otherwise, has been very evenly-matched in terms of aircraft ability. The F4U-4 Corsair easily chews up just about every aircraft in the planeset in a 1-on-1 with a pilot of equal skill, but the Spitfire Mk. XIV is a match for it. Just not down on the deck. But I think the perk price is easily justified, all things considered, just as the Corsair's perk price is justified.

It's not good to go by usage statistics to determine how good an aircraft is... The Spitfire Mk. XIV isn't a dog just because it has a very close kill-to-death ration. People just experiment with it because the perk price is rather cheap, and they usually don't seem to know how to use it properly (again, I almost always encounter XIVs near the ground --- this shouldn't be the case, but it is).

[Gixer]

Then you're an idiot. 

Ok I'm out, not interested in throwing direct insults just over spitfires and perk rides. cya.


<S>...-Gixer

[Widewing]

Based on whitepaper statistics, the only thing the F4U-4 really does that much better than the Spitfire Mk. XIV is low speed, low alt turning with full flaps.


The XIV easily turns better up high, and it can "float". It's got a better guns package. It climbs better. It accelerates faster. It turns better sans flaps.

The F4U-4 turns better with full flaps (as I said before). It has better zoom characteristics. It's a bit faster at certain altitudes. It has more ammunition. It also has greater range.


Every fight I've been in against an F4U-4 in my Spitfire Mk. XIV, DA or otherwise, has been very evenly-matched in terms of aircraft ability. The F4U-4 Corsair easily chews up just about every aircraft in the planeset in a 1-on-1 with a pilot of equal skill, but the Spitfire Mk. XIV is a match for it. Just not down on the deck. But I think the perk price is easily justified, all things considered, just as the Corsair's perk price is justified.

It's not good to go by usage statistics to determine how good an aircraft is... The Spitfire Mk. XIV isn't a dog just because it has a very close kill-to-death ration. People just experiment with it because the perk price is rather cheap, and they usually don't seem to know how to use it properly (again, I almost always encounter XIVs near the ground --- this shouldn't be the case, but it is).

I disagree in several respects. I find the Spit XIV's torque issues reduce its agility at all altitudes. I have fought duels against the Spit XIV at 30k with the F4U-4, and it can consistently defeat the Spitfire. Why? Because flap deployment is based upon IAS, not true air speed. Thus, the F4U-4 can deploy two to three notches of flaps at relatively high true air speeds. 400 mph TAS translates into 244 mph IAS at 30k. Therefore, the F4U-4 can deploy flaps at up to 410 mph TAS. Moreover, the Spit can't get slow enough to use its flaps and not fall out of the sky with the slightest g loading. The F4U-4 wins the turning contest hands down at 30k. Acceleration at 27k is a wash, virtually dead even. At 25k, the Spit has a very slight, insignificant edge. While the Spit XIV does climb (steady state) a bit faster at 25k, it's only a 300 fpm advantage. Zoom climb is what counts in a dogfight, and the F4U-4 zooms better at any altitude. Another factor mentioned is torque. Maneuvering at 30k exacerbates the torque issue for the Spitfire. In comparison, the F4U-4 is docile.

Given equal pilots, the F4U-4 will usually beat the Spit XIV at the Spit's best altitude. You might not know that the F4U-4 is 9 mph faster at the Spit's best altitude (453 mph vs 444 mph).

I like the Spitfire Mk. XIV. However, the F4U-4 will beat it where it was designed to perform best. That's one reason why I consider the F4U-4 to be without peer.

My regards,

Widewing