Manchurian Hell, F S O ?

[shreck]

It would be a hoot to have a late war Japanese/Russian conflict     KI84s, Nikis vs LAs and yaks!

IL2s as the russian hammer, and KI67s as easy kill sushi Been in FSO awhile now, don't remember any such event!! Would be great fun though I think.

[Nefarious]

Sounds interesting.

[Sled]

Might make a good "what if" event.

[ghostdancer]

Russian bomber is a bit more expansive with the lend lease program. I know they had B25s have to see what other bombers by this date. I don't think there was any air action between the two but Russia did declare war on Japan as seized the Kurils before Japan surrendered to the Allies.

Could be very interesting. Would have to check terrains to see if we have anything that fits.

[AKDogg]

I believe they had boston III's by this time.  They gonna be tuff for japanese planes to catch.

[ghostdancer]

It is a very interesting idea. We just don't have a terrain for it. I just looked and the Japan terrain has a little bit of Korea and Manchuria, no Soviet territory or the Kurils.

Not sure what the Soviets over ran when they declared war or not (North Korea and Manchuria). The Manchurian bases are very far away from Japan. have to think on this if it is doable. By that I mean if I can come up with a balanced event with another targets to go around .. with close to 500 players I prefer each side to have 4 targets to hit and defend at least.

[ghostdancer]

It is possible on the Japan terrain. Give the Russians most of Korea as their base and then have them have to hit the Japan or possible the few Manchurian bases left on the map to the North of Korea. The soviets having such a small foothold will make for some very brutal and direct battles.

La7 might be a bit much for Ki84s and N1K2s, maybe restricted, and instead the bulk of the Russians would be La5Ns (better match against those two planes in performance) and Yaks. Bomber is a tough but thinking B25H (Soviets had the B25 under lend lease but probably not the H .. meaning not the 75 gun in the nose but the rest would be fine .. tail gun).

Worried about the Boston IIIs being to easy for the Ki84 and N1K2s.

Of course also would have IL-2s and Ki67.

Definitely possible.

[Krusty]

Don't forget the P-39! Supposedly the P-63 was being held on the Asian front to counter any possible Japanese invasion, and the invasion of Japan itself by Soviet forces, but this never happened. The closest we have is the P-39, but I think there would be many of them.

Also, I think the La7 isn't going to be as much of a threat, because at the ranges it will need to fly it will be out of gas halfway to the action!

[ghostdancer]

Okay will also look at the P39Q.

I have to do fuel testing on both the La5N and La7. They need to be able to stay airborne for a while (have more than 28 minutes of flight like in the MA). So need to see what their range is at fuel burn of 1.0.

Also thinking of maybe the A20 for the Russians. Of course that would mean the Russians have divebombers since the A20 and B25H have no bomb sites.

Last, think would scrap the IL-2 .. it would just be easy meat. Plus, the Japanese really didn't have large armored formations and that was what it was developed really to attack.

[Krusty]

Okay will also look at the P39Q.

I have to do fuel testing on both the La5N and La7. They need to be able to stay airborne for a while (have more than 28 minutes of flight like in the MA). So need to see what their range is at fuel burn of 1.0.

I disagree! Make it suffer!

Take the historic range, compare to the range on the map, and increase fuel burn to limit the LA7 to about the approximate range it would have had if used this way in real life.

Like how in the BOB setups they adjust the multiplier to limit the 109E time over London*, only in this case it limits how far out the LA7 could go. For instance, it might have to be limited to base defense, coastal patrol, bomber interception, etc, whereas the P-39s and Yaks are better able to cruise into the combat zone, fight, and cruise back out.

It's a historical limitation. Same as the spits had a couple of FSOs ago. Don't change fuel burn to bypass it 




*= I don't think they do this properly, IMO, but that's another topic altogether

[ghostdancer]

Well I am thinking of fuel burn of 1.0 which is historical.

But remember I am looking for balance so I need to do some testing to see how everything really stacks up against each other. I don't want to construct something where basically one side gets blown out just because of the planeset, even if historical.

[Nefarious]

*= I don't think they do this properly, IMO, but that's another topic altogether

The BOB04 Map is 1:1 why would the fuel rate need to be modified? At 1.0 the range of the 109E should be similar if not exactly the same as in the Battle of Britain in 1940.

[shreck]

yes yes!! now the creative juices are flowing I think this set up would be a slugfest!!   and boy howdy, when all these russian and jap planes work there way to the deck---> katey bar the door 

[Krusty]

The BOB04 Map is 1:1 why would the fuel rate need to be modified? At 1.0 the range of the 109E should be similar if not exactly the same as in the Battle of Britain in 1940.

If I recall, BOB traditionally runs at 1.2xxx fuel burn, based on climbing to 25k (or something) flying to london cruising, flying 15 mins full throttle then rtb cruising while descending.

However, I disagree with this because 109Es traditionally had to wait for bombers, form up and fly close escort with them along their dog-leg pattern, which is why they only had about 15 mins fuel over London, so the test method doesn't reflect the actual flightplan.

Like I said, it's another topic altogether

There's something to be said for the Soviet Union having eyes bigger than its belly. All of its craft are short ranged tactical. They're really only designed for close-range work.

I wonder if they had needed to assault Japan if they would have been able to?

What is the range (on the Japan map) from the continent to Japan? Anybody have a screenshot of it?

[ghostdancer]

The closest base Korean base A3 ( SW of Pusan) is about 75 miles away from the closest Japanese base A4 (Fukuoka).

If the LA5Ns and LA7s have a radius of 100 miles (100 miles out and 100  miles back) and launch out of A108 they can hit several bases in Japan (from Hiroshima on Honshu to almost reaching the city of Nagasaki on Kyusha. This would allow just the bare trip of the noodleula (A3) to not be in Japanese hands. Then again to really work you have to stretch and make several assumptions:

1) The Japanese held out in the coast of North Korea
2) The Russians took the rest of Korea.

This would put bases in good reach of Kyusha and Honshu and also give some targets to the north. Which would provide me enough flexibility to put together 3 frames and try to develop balance objectives.

Historically the Russian offense ended because of Japanese surrender. They got into the north Korea but not much farther do to supply lines and such. The U.S. actually landed forces in the South. Then both the U.S. and Russians agreed to the split.

So this would be sort of a what if .. what if the campaign went on another 2 weeks, month, etc.?