Author Topic: Flying the P-47  (Read 2377 times)

Offline jerkins

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Re: Flying the P-47
« Reply #15 on: June 26, 2008, 11:40:20 AM »
Do I hear a vote for "violation of probation"? :D

All I have to say is WOW!  Any new players reading the first post, disregard this guy's input.

I second that motion.  He is deliberately trying to misinform people.  Waldron, please refrain from posting garbage in this forum, it is here to help new player progress.
Jerkins
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Offline Thing

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Re: Flying the P-47
« Reply #16 on: June 26, 2008, 12:28:32 PM »
Yes please refrain from disrespecting my beloved jug with garbage.   :mad:


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Offline Yossarian

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Re: Flying the P-47
« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2008, 02:31:56 PM »
I'm doing this only because I disagree with the content of the post.



 Better idea.  If you're in any model except a P-47D-11, you're not in a fighter plane,(they got that much right).  Stick to your tactical bombing mission.  Your mission is not to drop your ordinance in the ocean and tangle with fighters.  The first priority, is to fly away, and head to an alternate target and drop your bombs on something that counts.

Wrong.  All aeroplanes in Aces High are capable of being used as fighter planes successfully.  The P-47 is no exception.  If you don't feel you are capable of using your Thunderbolt as a fighter (and you don't want to learn how to do so), then the speed you gain in your bombing dive will almost certainly allow you to escape far faster (and further) than any enemy will care to pursue you (unless they dived as well).

In addition to this, the P-47 was used during World War II as a fighter with great success.  Read Robert S. Johnson's book Thunderbolt! if you want an excellent read about this.


 I know everybody is going to say the enemy fighter will just chase you down and kill you.  He certainly WILL if you waste precious seconds thinking about attacking him before you make this decision.  Bug out with your ordinance while he's still a tiny black at extreme range.  He probably won't even see you, especially if there are other planes closer to him.  

See my above comment please.


 Stay on mission.  Even if you hear someone else SCREAMING for help.  Don't trade places with a pilot who got himself into trouble.  Nobody is going to clear your six if you do.  That's just the way it is in the MA.  

Hmm.  I wouldn't be so sure of this.  Given stephen waldron's terrible reputation on this Bulletin Board, and assuming that his in-game name is similar to his BBS name, then I'd say this person is a terrible judge as to whether other pilots are willing to help him out.


 Don't trust friendly fighters either to tell you they are LEAVING.  One minute they're there, and the next minute they're GONE.  I generally check the clipboard after every attack run to see who's running away.  You'll be over a flashing target for quite awhile.  It takes some time to empty the ord on a P-47.

a) Pilots don't always say "RTB", or "heading back" etc.  Sometimes they do, other times not.

b) How in the world can you tell if someone's running away with your clipboard?  Unless you stare at it for about a minute, by which time someone's probably gotten on your 6 and blasted you out of the sky anyway, making who's running away and who isn't somewhat irrelevant.

c) Yes, you will be over the target (flashing?) for a while if you're going at 200 mph.  However, if you dives bomb, and pull out at 500mph, those 12.5 miles of radar will be past 90 seconds later (assuming you stay at precisely 500mph and fly straight away from your target).

d) If you move your fingers quite quickly, and have the game salvo your ordnance automatically, you can get rid of your 3 bombs and 10 rockets (I think it's 10) in 0.65 seconds.  If you think that 0.65 seconds is "some time", then you're playing this game from the wrong planet.


 Dive bombing ?  You don't want to experiment with that against targets that shoot back.  Not in the beginning.

Well what will you "experiment" against with it then?  Trees?


Level bombing at 2 thousand works just fine against undamaged and lightly damaged factories.  Just wait till the nose of the icon of your plane breaks the icon of the complex on your clipboard map.. and bombs away.

a) Please define "just fine".

b) I worked out a formula for doing level bombing in Mosquitoes and Spitfires, and in practice it took too long to set up, but worked excellently.  HOWEVER, your aimpoint was actually part of your plane, not something on the clipboard.

c) 2,000 feet is NOT out of the range of ANY kind of anti-aircraft fire.  2,000 feet = 600 yards (roughly), at which range a level-bombing aircraft will be easily shot down by ANY manned (or automatic) Anti-Aircraft fire - Ostwinds, Wirblewinds, M-16s, even M-8s and M-3s will be shooting at you.
Also, level bombing from such altitudes means that your enemy is shooting at a MUCH larger profile of your plane (its entire bottom surface) versus when you dive bomb (where only the FRONT profile is a target usually).  Also, you're going slower (usually) in level bombing than in dive-bombing, which means you spend more time over your target.

d) What magnification are you using on your clipboard?  Also, what speed are you going at?


 Don't worry. Nine times outta ten you're gonna hit something.  There are plenty of targets down there.

Yeah, there's thousands of trees down there that'll be absolutely delighted to receive your 1,000 lb bombs.


 Strafe the AA guns after you get your bombs and rockets off.

Since when have trees had anti-aircraft guns...?


 The rockets are way too inaccurate for new pilots to waste trying to hit AA positions with.  Your guns are way MORE accurate than the rockets.  This is imperitive to remember against nme airfield and town AA, as it will be shooting back at you while you are attacking.  But don't fly against these targets in the beginning until you get the bugs worked out.

a) Bollocks

b) So, how do you do level-bombing with rockets...?

c) You misspelt imperative

d) I thought you just said not to hit "targets that shoot back" with dive-bombing.  So it is fine to do another form of bombing that leaves you far more vulnerable to ground fire than dive-bombing against targets that shoot back?  I won't bother going into any more detail about contradictions here.


 Forget about armored targets too.  Especially if the tank is stopped.  In all likelihood, the guy is sitting in the AA machinegun position with the crosshairs on you just waiting for you to make that mistake.  If he's running away at full speed, unless he's crazy, he's probably driving the tank and focused on where he is going.  This is a good candidate for rockets.

To anyone reading this who doesn't know how to dive-bomb quite accurately:
go into the Training Arena and ask a trainer to help you dive-bomb well.


 For now just concentrate on easy targets and bringing your plane home without damage so you can put together some experience and multiple missions in a single sortie.  That's where the score is.
  If you can't resist dive bombing CV's.  At least pick the ones that are already damaged.  Odds are some of the flak will be knocked out.  Maybe flight ops as well.  That equals a "Soft" target.  Which is your preferred target as a beginner.

This actually isn't bad advice.  Whilst I would argue that all targets are difficult, some are definitely easier than others.  However, worrying about score so much is unproductive in my opinion.  Whilst the stats that make up your score (on the Clipboard go to "Roster", find your name, right click and select "Score") can be useful to check on how well you're doing overall, thinking about your score in a competitive isn't helpful, especially if you're a newer player.


 Occasionally the enemy will come after you in a 262.  The counter tactic to this is simple.  When you see the nme DAR bar light up in your sector, it's time to go. Level out and hit your WEP alternating every 20 seconds so it don't run out.. and head for home.  You'll be sitting in the tower drinking coffee when the 262 flies over.  How do you know the DAR bar is a 262 ?  You don't, but you assume it is.  

Whilst I've never heard of a 262 specifically coming after a P-47, there is no way that you will be able to outrun one unless you dive (and even then it can almost certainly outrun you if it dives as well).  I've found that break turns can be useful against a 262 just before it shoots, but correct me if I'm wrong on this please.  Also, I disagree with running every time you see a red darbar.

So, sorry for being a jerk, but a lot of this post was so wrong I felt I had to correct it.

<S>

Yossarian
Afk for a year or so.  The name of a gun turret in game.  Falanx, huh? :banana:
Apparently I'm in the 20th FG 'Loco Busters', or so the legend goes.
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Offline BaldEagl

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Re: Flying the P-47
« Reply #18 on: June 26, 2008, 02:55:19 PM »
« Last Edit: June 26, 2008, 02:59:35 PM by BaldEagl »
I edit a lot of my posts.  Get used to it.

Offline stephen waldron

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Re: Flying the P-47
« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2008, 05:27:30 PM »
 BNZ.  It's the end of the month and i've got a 900 attack scrore.  People tell me anything under a thousand is fairly respectable.  I know your going to have some childish snotty remark prepared..  so i'll just ingnore you. 
  You guys might as well stop posting garbage.  Everybody knows you are fighter jock trolls trying to keep the new pilots in the dark.  You're not fooling anybody.  In fact.. When you attack good advise, you make it very plain this is EXACTLY what you are. 
  You are insulting the intelligence of everyone who reads the thread.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2008, 07:13:53 AM by Skuzzy »

Offline Bronk

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Re: Flying the P-47
« Reply #20 on: June 26, 2008, 05:48:32 PM »
  BNZ.  It's the end of the month and i've got a 900 attack scrore. 
Yup those toolsheds are crafty the way they  sit there and..... oohh wait that's it, they just sit there.
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Offline WMLute

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Re: Flying the P-47
« Reply #21 on: June 26, 2008, 05:53:40 PM »
  BNZ.  It's the end of the month and i've got a 900 attack scrore.  People tell me anything under a thousand is fairly respectable.  I know your going to have some childish snotty remark prepared..  so i'll just ingnore you. 
  You guys might as well stop posting garbage.  Everybody knows you are fighter jock trolls trying to keep the new pilots in the dark.  You're not fooling anybody.  In fact.. When you attack good advise, you make it very plain this is EXACTLY what you are. 
  You are insulting the intelligence of everyone who reads the thread. 

So you are saying that the people telling you to practice, train, read, study and work hard are just trying to "keep you in the dark".

(sigh)

You have been given some most excellent advice from some of the best and/or most knowledgeable players in the game.  (in various threads)

These players have years (and some decades) of experience who are able to do with ease the simple things you can't quite pull off. (like how to dive bomb in a p47)

Yet they are all "wrong" and you somehow feel you are "right". (sigh)


What exactly IS the name you fly under?
« Last Edit: June 26, 2008, 05:55:27 PM by WMLute »
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Offline Murdr

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Re: Flying the P-47
« Reply #22 on: June 26, 2008, 05:57:49 PM »
Case in point where Trainer moderation of Help & Training would be beneficial to this forum.  Would be locked if it was my call.



While any offer of help is appriciated and welcomed.  At a minimum, one should know the subject matter well enough to offer a pittance of good advise.

Offline Stoney

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Re: Flying the P-47
« Reply #23 on: June 26, 2008, 06:17:46 PM »
You guys might as well stop posting garbage.  Everybody knows you are fighter jock trolls trying to keep the new pilots in the dark.

How about you take a minute to digest some of this?  I can tell you right now that almost every one of your tactical suggestions that you posted first are poor choices. 

And, if you're going for a good attack score, the P-47 is one of the worst planes to do it in.
"Can we be incorrect at times, absolutely, but I do believe 15 years of experience does deserve a little more credence and respect than you have given from your very first post."

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Offline The Fugitive

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Re: Flying the P-47
« Reply #24 on: June 26, 2008, 06:22:15 PM »
  BNZ.  It's the end of the month and i've got a 900 attack scrore.  People tell me anything under a thousand is fairly respectable.  I know your going to have some childish snotty remark prepared..  so i'll just ingnore you. 
  You guys might as well stop posting garbage.  Everybody knows you are fighter jock trolls trying to keep the new pilots in the dark.  You're not fooling anybody.  In fact.. When you attack good advise, you make it very plain this is EXACTLY what you are. 
  You are insulting the intelligence of everyone who reads the thread. 

So going by your logic, I'm ranked 912, while your ranked 940 in "attack scores" (we won't mention I did mine in 4 hours and you did yours in 20), I am a far better source as an attack pilot  :rolleyes: With my vast experience I can say that every thing Stephen said in this thread is wrong. Fighting in the P47 is a great way to dogfight. Don't run away from a fight, and don't "level bomb" with one either  :rolleyes: Dive bombing is one of its great traits as it can take a lot of punishment and can handle a few pings from ack, or the guy sitting in is gun position in the GV.

Offline Ponyace

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Re: Flying the P-47
« Reply #25 on: June 26, 2008, 06:38:24 PM »
I am a relativaly new pilot (only flown for a few months, which is nothing compared to some people), and This is THE worst advise I have ever heard. Most of these guys I've seen post great info, But you are telling me and everyone else like me to ignore them and listen to you. If we do, we wont have any fun in the game. EVERYONE HERE WANTS NEW PLAYERS TO GET BETTER. That is why there are trainers, squads, and even a training arena. All of this is avaliable to ANYONE, even you. The only problem is you dont sit down and LEARN.

To everyone who has "attacked this "good" advise" :salute
Gatore
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Offline BnZ

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Re: Flying the P-47
« Reply #26 on: June 26, 2008, 07:30:05 PM »
So that WAS you in the D-25 on the film?

You could learn a thing or two from a guy named Chevy. You don't have a snowball's chance in hell of getting a killing gun solution on his P-47, in a 190, unless you sneak up on him.

If your in-game handle is in fact "Waldren", according you your stats, this month you have two, count'em, two, kills in any model of P-47. And 8 deaths. I've bombed more GVs than that in a Jug, and I'm terrible at jabo and hardly ever bomb. This tour, you have precisely six kills of any kind in fighters of any kind. I had more kills than that the first DAY I played this tour. I had more than kills than that the first week I played the game, period. I currently have more kills (7) in a single fighter I haven't upped much lately, the FW190A5, than you have in all fighters. Your single highest item for scored kills is as a ship gunner. You have 18, bully for you. (I have 33. I've also killed more planes (20) with an OSTWIND than you've killed with a 5 inch ship gun.)

So forgive me if I'm not overwhelmed by your "elite" attack rank.

As for the rest:

Any time.

Any where

With anything.

I am quite possibly the worst "fighter jock" posting to this thread.

But still more then enough.



  BNZ.  It's the end of the month and i've got a 900 attack scrore.  People tell me anything under a thousand is fairly respectable.  I know your going to have some childish snotty remark prepared..  so i'll just ingnore you. 
  You guys might as well stop posting garbage.  Everybody knows you are fighter jock trolls trying to keep the new pilots in the dark.  You're not fooling anybody.  In fact.. When you attack good advise, you make it very plain this is EXACTLY what you are. 
  You are insulting the intelligence of everyone who reads the thread. 
« Last Edit: June 26, 2008, 07:55:15 PM by BnZ »

Offline stephen waldron

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Re: Flying the P-47
« Reply #27 on: June 26, 2008, 09:15:12 PM »
  You guys just don't listen, do you ?  I DON'T FLY FIGHTERS.  I DON'T DOGFIGHT...  PERIOD!.  I'll do some tactical bombing with a fighter, but that's the extent of my interest in fighter planes.  I burned out on that stuff 20 years ago playing "Wings of the Luftwaffe". 
  In my opinion fighters are largely irrelevant in this game.  Sort'a like nats on a fishing trip.  They're there, they're annoying, but they really don't have anything to do with whether or not you catch a fish.
  Now back on topic.  One more trick fighter jocks like to use to catch a working P-47 is to sneak in NOE, Pop-up and shoot you down.  The counter tactic to this is simple.  Just restrict the amount of time you spend over the target.  If you're gone when they get there, they can't shoot at you.  It's that simple.
  You do this first by limiting the ordinance you take off with.  Leave the rockets behind.  If you're new, you're rarely going to hit anything with them anyway, except the biggest targets.  That will save you making two runs on the target.  Next limit your strafing runs.  I leave when my guns get down to six or seven hundred rounds.  Beleive me, you'll never see an nme fighter if you follow these simple rules. They don't have the speed to get there before you finish your work and leave.
  Later on when you attack nme airfields, the operative words are "Fighter Hangers Down".  Just hold down the shift key and click on the nme base.  FHD and no nme Dar bar = No nme fighters.  If any nme fighters are circling the airbase under their own flak at 500 feet, you'll see'em and they're not going to come up anyway.  Once again, you just fly off and hit an alternate target.  It's that simple.

Offline stephen waldron

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Re: Flying the P-47
« Reply #28 on: June 26, 2008, 09:19:50 PM »
Oh i almost forgot.  BnZ.  You've been reported to HTC for the "law-nerd" remark for flamebaiting in the forum. 

Offline jerkins

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Re: Flying the P-47
« Reply #29 on: June 26, 2008, 09:34:14 PM »
I hope the people in charge (skuzzy) locks this thread.  Your advice is laughable at best.  Some people actually put thought into their advice posted in this forum.  Agent360 spent a lot of time making films and narrating them.  Mudr and all the trainers stop in, they are extremely knowledgeable (many have great write ups on the trainers site).  Widewing checks the forums and offers technical advice as well as tactical advice.  The only person currently posting that is trying to keep new players in the dark is you waldron.  It would be best if you would re access the advice you have given, and refrain from posting anymore.
Jerkins
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