Fw 190 A8/R8 'Red 1' 5.(Sturm)/JG 300 1944

[Xasthur]

Cheers mate, you're a champion.

[Xasthur]

Progress shots







I'm not so sure about the red lower cowl... all the artists impressions seem to show it as being red but I have one photo showing it RLM 76.... a replacement cowl or pre-painting perhaps? I'm undecided on that part.

[oboe]

<S> Xasthur.   Really a fine looking skin so far.   I know its a work in progress and I do believe its going to come out to be quite a stunner.

A few thoughts, which perhaps you just haven't got to yet, but in any case:

- the dark grey/lt grey border between camo and base color I think could be a bit more feathered (based on your artwork profiles).  I used a size 9 or 13 feathered edge paintbrush in Photoshop and go over the border in a separate layer to acheive this affect - when I get it looking right I merge the layers.

- the red seems to intense to me - I think dialing down the saturation and opacity would make it look less stark against the rest of the skin.

- the iron crosses seem exactly right on; I think the black in the cross is done just right as a dark dark grey, but missing from upper wing surfaces

- the black rectangle on the side of the nose just aft the cowling is too dark - there should be some detail of vents within according to your profiles - and in the formation painting, the dark square isn't present at all - its just a darkened area with heavy exhaust stains.

- rivets on the landing gear doors stand out too much

- the tail surface could use a bit more mottling; perhaps with a hint of Guassian blur filter thrown in to soften the edges.

Just my thoughts - I've not done a Luftwaffe skin myself.   Again, I know its a WIP shot and you probably just haven't got to some details yet.   I think its a great-looking scheme and expect it will be a popular ride for A8 drivers.

[Krusty]

Unless you have photos that show it the way you've skinned it, I wouldn't make the camo different on the side armor panel. It should be seamless, for the most part (not counting that fuel/whatever stain dripping down the rear edge)

[Xasthur]

Thanks Oboe, all of the fine details you mentioned are just stop-gaps so I can see how it all comes together. I still need to smooth edges out and desaturate a few things.

Thanks for the suggestions though, they're always appreciated. 


Krusty, I see what you're saying but I think it's a fairly accurate representation of the actual armour plate.





The aircraft was painted before the plate was added, so the field painter has obvioulsy tried to blend it in a little.

Perhaps I need to mottle the section between the exhaust and the armour plate a little more. Cheers for the heads up.

[Wmaker]

Hi Xasthur,

First of all, unfortunately those newer Osprey colour plates aren't always known for their accuracy. That particular profile is a good example of that.

Couple of things that come to mind:

- If that underside of the cowl was painted in any colour differing from light grey (RLM 76) it was yellow, not red.

- Also the spinner should be black instead of red. It can be seen from the picture that you posted:



As you can see, the spinner and the tactical number red 1 (which we know is red) have a very distinct shade difference. Also in place of those two "onion rings" that have been copied from the default A-8 skin over and over again should be a spiral which starts from the tip of the spinner. The guy who did the default skins for A-8 and the D-9 probably just looked at a side profile and "connected the dots" wrongly. The onion rings look pretty silly in flight while the spiral just looks plain cool. Like I said, so far everyone has just copied the default skin maker's mistake, no one has gotten it right yet.

Here's a picture how they were appied in JG 1 but it shows how it basically should look. Bad quality JPG, but it shows what it needs to show:


- I wouldn't use different shade on that side armour plate. IMO that pic doesn't really show that there should be any shade differences between the armour plate and the rest of the fuselage after all same paints were used to paint both, no matter when the plate was attached to the aircraft. What could be done is a little shade to the edge of the armour plate to make it come off of the surface of the fuselage.

- Right now the area behind the exhaust stacks looks like a pitch black retangle with very little detail on it. The black area should reach higher...to where the MG cover starts. Also a bit lighter shade with more detail would look better.

I wouldn't normally tell a skinner to look reference from a plastic model but IMO this guy has done very good job and I agree with his interpretations on how this plane should look. There are very cool weathering effects on the model like the oily DT and oil streaks around the cowling, red primer blotches on the cowl, etc. Check out the link:

http://hsfeatures.com/features04/fw190a8rauhbautzcw_1.htm


Here a real photo showing similar oiling of the cowling used in the model...

[Motherland]

As you can see, the spinner and the tactical number red 1 (which we know is red) have a very distinct shade difference. Also in place of those two "onion rings" that have been copied from the default A-8 skin over and over again should be a spiral which starts from the tip of the spinner. The guy who did the default skins for A-8 and the D-9 probably just looked at a side profile and "connected the dots" wrongly. The onion rings look pretty silly in flight while the spiral just looks plain cool. Like I said, so far everyone has just copied the default skin maker's mistake, no one has gotten it right yet.

Unfortunately it's impossible to do a spiral on the 190 skins (beside the Ta152) because only half of the skinner is mapped, which is mirrored on the skin, making it impossible to do a spiral. The 'onion ring' is simply the next best thing.

[Wmaker]

Unfortunately it's impossible to do a spiral on the 190 skins (beside the Ta152) because only half of the skinner is mapped, which is mirrored on the skin, making it impossible to do a spiral. The 'onion ring' is simply the next best thing.

Aw man! I didn't know that. Quite frankly that is not the smartest way to map spinners for planes that so often had spiraled spinners (Even the default skin after all!). Anyway, personally I think just plain straight stripes with a small white area in the tip of the spinner would look a lot better.

[Motherland]

Aw man! I didn't know that. Quite frankly that is not the smartest way to map spinners for planes that so often had spiraled spinners (Even the default skin after all!). Anyway, personally I think just plain straight stripes with a small white area in the tip of the spinner would look a lot better.

Yeah, the 109 skin, even the old C.2 skins (and I imagine a lot more, haven't messed with many others) have both sides of the spinner so you can do a spiral (though for some reason there's 2-3 inches of spinner on the ends of the fuselage of the 109, the rest of it on a different part of the bitmap all together....  just makes the annoying and difficult process of doing a spiral even more annoying and difficult... ), I can't figure out any reason why HTC would have mapped it that way, as I remember the 190 skin isn't that strapped for space but... oh well. As far as doing straight lines instead of diagonals, that's just 'tradition' I guess, much like omitting the Swastika altogether on German skins has become 'tradition' instead of replacing it with a black square (as per the default Ta152 skin) or an Iron Cross or something. IMO the diagonal lines kind of give the illusion of being a spiral, but it's all in the eyes of the beholder.

[Wmaker]

Yeh, I knew about the 109 spinner being split between the fuselage and the true spinner halves. The reason why I would rather see straight lines is because then it wouldn't look so stupid when the prop turns. I just took a look to the A-8 skin. It is pretty full of stuff but even with just the space used by one spinner half a better solution would be a round texture which would then "wrap around the spinner from above".

[Motherland]

Yeh, I knew about the 109 spinner being split between the fuselage and the true spinner halves. The reason why I would rather see straight lines is because then it wouldn't look so stupid when the prop turns. I just took a look to the A-8 skin. Even just with the space used by one spinner half a better solution would be a round which would then "wrap around the spinner from above".

(Image removed from quote.)

HTC saw this solution and implemented it with the Ta-152 skin. However changing it on the other 190's now would mean that all the skins currently made for the 190's would no longer work, and have to be redone.

[fudgums]

still think it looks beautiful

[Xasthur]

Hi Xasthur,

First of all, unfortunately those newer Osprey colour plates aren't always known for their accuracy. That particular profile is a good example of that.

Couple of things that come to mind:

- If that underside of the cowl was painted in any colour differing from light grey (RLM 76) it was yellow, not red.

- Also the spinner should be black instead of red. It can be seen from the picture that you posted:

(Image removed from quote.)

- I wouldn't use different shade on that side armour plate. IMO that pic doesn't really show that there should be any shade differences between the armour plate and the rest of the fuselage after all same paints were used to paint both, no matter when the plate was attached to the aircraft. What could be done is a little shade to the edge of the armour plate to make it come off of the surface of the fuselage.

- Right now the area behind the exhaust stacks looks like a pitch black retangle with very little detail on it. The black area should reach higher...to where the MG cover starts. Also a bit lighter shade with more detail would look better.

Thanks for the suggestions, Wmaker.

- I have a photo of the lower cowl showing it to be RLM 76. I had hoped to find something that depicts a red cowl but it seems that this will not be the case. The same for the spinner.

- The armour plate is not painted thickly enough, it does look a little too light. I think the photo looks like the armour plate is slightly less opaque than the fuselage but you're right, it should be darker.

- The exhaust stack is just a black blob, I have done nothing to it at all yet. See my 190 A5 skin for what it will look like when I've done that part.

Thanks for the suggestions mate. 

[Wmaker]

Hi again Xasthur,

Found Claes Sundin's profile from the depths of my HD:



It matches pretty nicely with the photos and the model with some small differences.

All in all, it's about ten times better than the one from Osprey.

[Xasthur]

Thanks mate.