Wirblewind vs. Ostwind

[DaveJ]

You can't register hits past ~1700 yards

Funny, I've been hit at well past 2.5k.

[Lusche]

Funny, I've been hit at well past 2.5k.

Go offline or TA and test it

Past ~1700 no hits are registering on .target anymore.

[BnZ]

Funny, I've been hit at well past 2.5k.

Film?

[moot]

Funny, I've been hit at well past 2.5k.

You have to account for rate of closure.  If you're going fast enough, the WW can shoot when you're at 2.2K and you will have close to 1.5K or so by the time those bullets reach the end of their ~1.7K lifetime.

[DaveJ]

You have to account for rate of closure.  If you're going fast enough, the WW can shoot when you're at 2.2K and you will have close to 1.5K or so by the time those bullets reach the end of their ~1.7K lifetime.

That's a decent shout. I have been pinged though at 2.5k flying AWAY. Perhaps it's because I was in a bomber or something, I dunno. I just find that some things a wirble can do are just unreal.

[waystin2]

No, waystin2 was pretty much supporting the 'cheap' kill argument by challenging Karaya to attempt to get an 'inexpensive' kill against him in a flak panzie or weeblewobble.

ack-ack

Hello Ack-Ack,

I was challenging noone.  What I was stating in plain and simple terms is this...Just about any plane in the inventory can easily turret a Wirbel/Ostie (Karaya's methodology), but it takes a bomb or a tank to destroy one.  I concede that Karaya has a viable option for stopping the turret from operating, but not destroying the vehicle.  As far as the cheap and inexpensive talk I will also try to put it as plainly as possible for you...There are no easy, cheap, hard, expensive kills.  A kill is a kill to me.   I very much subscribe to the "if it's red, then make it dead" philosophy.  I do not care how it is done, just kill the enemy vehicle/plane.  If it makes folks feel better about themselves, then apply labels and ratings to other pilot's kills all you want.

<Salute>

[Lusche]

That's a decent shout. I have been pinged though at 2.5k flying AWAY.

Again, this is not possible. I just looked up my original test results. Wirbelwind rounds exist up to 1841yds horizontal distance. They disappear magically at 1842 yds.
(And a hit at 1840 yds is more a result of luck then aim - to compensate for vertical bullet drop alone you have to aim about 180ft above your target)

I might add that what we think we saw during a battle often never happened at all. A perception issue we all fall for once in a while. When I klost my first 262 to a Wirbel I first thought too "Impossible, I was way too high!" - film proved I was wrong. And dead.

Hence all that "you couldn't catch me me at 500 mph" (film shows he did only 400mph), "You accellerated while going straight up" (very popular claim about Spits), "You shot through the building" stuff we regulary see.

[E25280]

That's a decent shout. I have been pinged though at 2.5k flying AWAY. Perhaps it's because I was in a bomber or something, I dunno. I just find that some things a wirble can do are just unreal.

Careful . . . if you are referring to the fact you were at 2.5K altitude, that is in feet and is only a little over d800 yards, which is well within the WW range.  (Bringing this up because it is a common mistake.)

Also there is the potential for a small lag issue -- he hit you while you were in range, but due to internet lag your system didn't receive the message that you were struck until you were "out of range" on your end.

[Zazen13]

It really works well when they are occupied by someone else.

What Slappy said here is key. It is the reason a good shot in an Ostwind will always be better than a good shot in a WW. The Ostwind can 1 shot 1 kill potentially up to 3k away. In a really nasty vulchfest you can spin the Ostwind around popping enemy rather quickly if you are a good shot. In a WW you must spend a relatively longer time tracking, waiting for the enemy to close within effective range then pumping enough round into him to bring him down. This all takes more time, which is key, the more time you take the more likely another vulcher will pop your turret while you're facing the other way. No matter how good a shot you are with the AA equipment you can only shoot at one plane at a time, that's its vulnerability. Many times after I've been dropping vulchers like flies, the word apparently gets out, and they start attacking me with 2 and 3 guys simultaneously , it's very effective.

[Masherbrum]

You're arguing against your own point there.

Wirblewinds are way to effective in my opinion. Anything with 4 x20mm with 4000 rounds is clearly perkable. And it doesn't help the range of the fire is absolutely unreal.

No I'm not.   You read more into that statement then you should have. 

Here.   Before the WW was added, we whooped arse in the Ostie and FG.   Perk it, even though the range is reduced DRASTICALLY in the WW.   If you really need to VULCH FIELDS (Let's be honest here, this is the REAL PROBLEM), practice will only help you more than asking for an ok GV to be perked.   

[Masherbrum]

What Slappy said here is key. It is the reason a good shot in an Ostwind will always be better than a good shot in a WW. The Ostwind can 1 shot 1 kill potentially up to 3k away. In a really nasty vulchfest you can spin the Ostwind around popping enemy rather quickly if you are a good shot. In a WW you must spend a relatively longer time tracking, waiting for the enemy to close within effective range then pumping enough round into him to bring him down. This all takes more time, which is key, the more time you take the more likely another vulcher will pop your turret while you're facing the other way. No matter how good a shot you are with the AA equipment you can only shoot at one plane at a time, that's its vulnerability. Many times after I've been dropping vulchers like flies, the word apparently gets out, and they start attacking me with 2 and 3 guys simultaneously , it's very effective.

Yep.   Loede and GooseCH were circling a field while it was being vulched.   I fired three times in a FG and nailed Goose's 38 from 3.5k away.   Fired another 3 at 2.5k getting Loede in his Ki-84.   4XTCH turreted me and we all laughed.  Especially at Goose's response on 200 after seeing I got him: "Figures".   I have begun to hit a lot more, from farther out.   I'm keen on leading the con.    Keep in mind that I DO NOT zoom in, put the head position up or use a diff. sight.   I see a plane spraying and follow their tracers and shoot where they WILL BE. 

Some are good in the Ostie, not many.   The Ostwind is not a GV you can just simply point and shoot.   I've had 6 years of practice and still wish I was as good as Zazzy or TopHat in one.   I'm just below them IMO, but I'm still learning from him and TopHat.   LTAR's are good and get a lot of the press, but those two are TOPS in the Ostie, no exceptions.   

[Masherbrum]

Funny, I've been hit at well past 2.5k.

Not with a WW.   If so, they sprayed so much they got lucky.   An Ostie or FG would be a little tougher, but more plausible.   

[Lusche]

Still somewhat on topic...

During the last 2 months, I made the observation that the Wirbelwind in some situations  even may have helped the airborne attackers. How?

The answer is greed & lazyness!

It's much simpler to get some kills vs. vulcher than it was in Ostwind, and an easy way to get lots of GV perks quickly. So everytime you hear the call "NOE ib AXX" you will see dozens of Wirbelwinds crawl out of the VH... just to stop 100ft later. I have seen many a field captured because most defenders jumped in a Wirbel, and most of that Wirbels never even tried to get to that town thats being killed quickly by 110's. Most of them do not even disperse over the airfield to effectively fend off the vulchers so that friendly fighters have a chance to take off. No, they are just sitting by the VH, hoping some enemy is dumb enough to fly into their gun's range.
5 mins later you will see the field ack popping one WW turret after another...

[DaveJ]

Some are good in the Ostie, not many.   The Ostwind is not a GV you can just simply point and shoot.   I've had 6 years of practice and still wish I was as good as Zazzy or TopHat in one.   I'm just below them IMO, but I'm still learning from him and TopHat.   LTAR's are good and get a lot of the press, but those two are TOPS in the Ostie, no exceptions.

I've been on the receiving end of Zazen's ostie and FG WAY too many times in the past. 

[Lye-El]

Funny, I've been hit at well past 2.5k.

Hmmm....I never have with a WW, 1 to 1.5K is about it. I have picked off Goons at 3K with an Ostwind whose drivers thought they were safe.