San Francisco plans to honor George W Bush

[Shuckins]

Stop thinking in terms of the program defined as "Welfare" and think in terms of programs that further the "welfare of the people" and you'll find that you're closer to understanding the discussion.

Such social programs include Welfare, Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, etc.  Taken as an aggregate, the governments spends FAR more on those than on the military.  Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security are the fastest growing programs in the federal budget.  Attempts to raise taxes in order to keep them solvent may well break the budget, and in the not too distant future.  They are permanent, and growing at a frightening pace.

The expenses of the war, however, are temporary, and will begin to wind down during the next couple of years, if current trends continue.

[crockett]

Ant to think I thought this one was gonna die right off the bat. A 5 pager, I'm getting better.. 

[yanksfan]

George W. Bush, Not worth comment.

[Toad]

Bush has routinely looked like a monkey loving a football.

Bush has often been a monkey loving a football.

However, he did appoint Roberts and Alito to the SC. In this particular case, those two Attaboys completely outweigh and over shadow his Awshirts.

Thus he remains the far, far, FAR, FAR better choice than either Gore or Kerry, the other two clowns that might have held the job during this same time period.

Had either Gore or Kerry made those SC appointments, the Heller case would have gone the other way. Heller was a landmark ruling; one of those that makes an incredible statement for liberty.

For this alone, Bush gets a pass. I am thankful that the Democrats were unable to field a candidate that could beat this monkey loving a football......... twice.

[yanksfan]

Bush has routinely looked like a monkey loving a football.

Bush has often been a monkey loving a football.

However, he did appoint Roberts and Alito to the SC. In this particular case, those two Attaboys completely outweigh and over shadow his Awshirts.

Thus he remains the far, far, FAR, FAR better choice than either Gore or Kerry, the other two clowns that might have held the job during this same time period.

Had either Gore or Kerry made those SC appointments, the Heller case would have gone the other way. Heller was a landmark ruling; one of those that makes an incredible statement for liberty.

For this alone, Bush gets a pass. I am thankful that the Democrats were unable to field a candidate that could beat this monkey loving a football......... twice.

So your saying that , for the sake of owning a handgun in DC, and 2 other citys that this ruleing will effect the deaths of over 4000 service men and women, the ruin of our economy, the loss of statis in the world, the abuse of power, the lies the scandles, the overall degradeing of individual civil libertys, the bungled war on terror, bankrupting the nation, the list goes on and on, not to mention the general disfunction of our federal government, makes it all worth it?

[Toad]

Nope, I'm saying that in the long term having two Justices that understand the Constitution as written outweigh the negatives of his Presidency. All those things you mention will pass; the Constitution endures.

Had Gore or Kerry appointed two more inventors to the court, the Constitution and our freedom would not endure. Appointments made by those two could eventually have led to the 2nd American Civil War, another thing that far outweighs the totality of items on your laundry list.

BTW, much of your list was accomplished with the complicity of the Democratic party members, the Patriot Act and it's renewal as a good example.

[moot]

It's only going to be for sure with hindsight, but while the war was a temporary (albeit relatively long) problem, flushing the 2nd amendment down the toilet is a guaranteed and probably permanent bad news for the whole country..  That's not meant to downplay the consequences of Iraq II either.
nm, see above..

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

So your saying that , for the sake of owning a handgun in DC, and 2 other citys that this ruleing will effect the deaths of over 4000 service men and women, the ruin of our economy, the loss of statis in the world, the abuse of power, the lies the scandles, the overall degradeing of individual civil libertys, the bungled war on terror, bankrupting the nation, the list goes on and on, not to mention the general disfunction of our federal government, makes it all worth it?

Our economy is NOT ruined. For all the bleating of the sheep we call journalists, we are NOT in a recession, a recession is defined as two consecutive months of negative growth, we have not even had ONE month of negative growth, despite the overwhelming effect the cost of oil has on the economy.

We are not bankrupt, and besides, the most Bush could have done on much of the spending, voted on by Congress, is veto some of it.

We have not lost status in the world, regardless of the same bleaters. Europe is actually working with the U.S. on several issues, including Iran.

Bush is no more responsible for the dysfunction of the Federal government than any other recent President.

I have not had my civil liberties degraded, and in fact, thanks to George Bush, my civil liberties were DEFENDED last Thursday.

The vast majority of Congress AGREED with George Bush on invading Iraq, they just lack the guts to admit it. The policy of Regime change in Iraq was established BEFORE Bush took office. Speaking of a lack of guts, The great Democrat leaders of the most unpopular Congress in history (more unpopular than Bush) don't have the guts to admit the Bush policy of a troop surge in Iraq worked, nor does the media, but the proof is there to see.

The "scandals" are for the most part are fabricated, for example the "scandal" over the firing of Federal attorneys, since Bush fired a few, and Clinton FIRED NEARLY ALL OF THEM. Or the Valarie Plame "scandal", which they desperately trying to revive. I could go on.

While the war on terror has not gone as well as we'd like, no further attacks have been carried out here, and we have no idea how many have been averted. As with ANY war, there have been setbacks, that is to be expected.

I'm not a huge fan of Bush, but he compares VERY favorably to those who have been presented as an alternative.

Who are you going to hate with such fervor next year, after Bush is out of office?

[yanksfan]

Nope, I'm saying that in the long term having two Justices that understand the Constitution as written outweigh the negatives of his Presidency. All those things you mention will pass; the Constitution endures.

Had Gore or Kerry appointed two more inventors to the court, the Constitution and our freedom would not endure. Appointments made by those two could eventually have led to the 2nd American Civil War, another thing that far outweighs the totality of items on your laundry list.

BTW, much of your list was accomplished with the complicity of the Democratic party members, the Patriot Act and it's renewal as a good example.

trust me when i tell you I'm no fan of republicans or democrats, this 2nd amendment ruleing is really a nonruling basically stateing only that the 2nd amendment refers to individual rights not just those of well formed militia, I agree, thanks for the clarification, changes very little tho as this was the popular assumtion except in litrally a few citys, it will change nothing in places like here in NJ or accross the country as a whole.

The patriot act on the other hand is a ducument which forgoes the constitution and the supreme ct intirely, you can be relieved of your guns at anytime without warrent, as an individual or militia. This act, tho approved and reapproved by both Dem's and Republican congress's was A republican George W Bush idea. And this more so then any other institution, act , supreme ct ruleing or law, could lead to civil unrest, a civil war in the US will not occur until people become desperate enough they follow someone with what seems a better solution for their situation. Unlikely even at a stretch due to either the 2nd amendment or patriot act.

However, at a stretch, and I do love to go to the stretch, lol.

When gas is $12 a gallon, inflation is double diget on a monthly basis, unemployment is rampent and you can no longer be assured of future that is prosperous and safe here in the US, we are at war in several places around the world and there is no solution, and you feel as tho the government has been less then truthful with you, someone may come along and give you an oppurtunity to take back what you feel has been taken from you. Then civil war becomes a possibility. These events, may have been put in motion by George W Bush, his policys and lack there of.

So by the same "civil War' stretch you take with the 2nd amendment, I can throw it back to you in the form of "George started it".  

lol, altho niether is likely.

[Toad]

agree, thanks for the clarification, changes very little tho as this was the popular assumtion except in litrally a few citys, it will change nothing in places like here in NJ or accross the country as a whole.

Actually, it changes the entire ball game. As the Revolution started with a little skirmish, this is the opening shot in a long campaign. This was a necessary first step in the process of incorporating the 2nd Amendment. Incorporation is HUGE. It will take a long time but this ruling will be a key factor in the eventual incorporation.

This act, tho approved and reapproved by both Dem's and Republican congress's was A republican George W Bush idea.

Key is that is had and continues to have Democratic support; tough to blame Bush since it couldn't have passed without the Dems support.

When gas is $12 a gallon, inflation is double diget on a monthly basis, unemployment is rampent and you can no longer be assured of future that is prosperous and safe here in the US,

Not to worry, the Messiah Obama will have his hand on the tiller than. Nothing can possibly go wrong.

we are at war in several places around the world and there is no solution,

Unfortunately for your argument, current events do not support your supposition here.

[yanksfan]

Our economy is NOT ruined. For all the bleating of the sheep we call journalists, we are NOT in a recession, a recession is defined as two consecutive months of negative growth, we have not even had ONE month of negative growth, despite the overwhelming effect the cost of oil has on the economy.

We are not bankrupt, and besides, the most Bush could have done on much of the spending, voted on by Congress, is veto some of it.

We have not lost status in the world, regardless of the same bleaters. Europe is actually working with the U.S. on several issues, including Iran.

Bush is no more responsible for the dysfunction of the Federal government than any other recent President.

I have not had my civil liberties degraded, and in fact, thanks to George Bush, my civil liberties were DEFENDED last Thursday.

The vast majority of Congress AGREED with George Bush on invading Iraq, they just lack the guts to admit it. The policy of Regime change in Iraq was established BEFORE Bush took office. Speaking of a lack of guts, The great Democrat leaders of the most unpopular Congress in history (more unpopular than Bush) don't have the guts to admit the Bush policy of a troop surge in Iraq worked, nor does the media, but the proof is there to see.

The "scandals" are for the most part are fabricated, for example the "scandal" over the firing of Federal attorneys, since Bush fired a few, and Clinton FIRED NEARLY ALL OF THEM. Or the Valarie Plame "scandal", which they desperately trying to revive. I could go on.

While the war on terror has not gone as well as we'd like, no further attacks have been carried out here, and we have no idea how many have been averted. As with ANY war, there have been setbacks, that is to be expected.

I'm not a huge fan of Bush, but he compares VERY favorably to those who have been presented as an alternative.

Who are you going to hate with such fervor next year, after Bush is out of office?

WOW, pull your head out for a bit of air, LOL. put the GOP card away for a bit. Let me know what drug it is your on so that I too can see only what I'd like too.

WOW, where do i begin, this could go on for a long time, not sure i want to dedicate my day to converting your opinion which has no chance anyway.

your last question first, who will i hate, George has done enough damage to fuel my hate of him for years and years after he is gone. no problems there.

Congress and the American people were flat out "LIED" to by this president, on going into Iraq, George Bush in and of himself has bankrupted the US government by borrowing from the federal reserve the money to promote this war in Iraq, and by spending the 3 trillion dollar surplus the US had when he became president, he is a fool, idiot and a lier, he should be hanged.

I am not a republican or a democrat, they are equally responcible for the mess this country finds itself in, which by the way you have yet to feel the full force of. As far as recession goes, that depends who you ask, which if you'll take note, i didn't, the fact is our economic state has no clear definition as yet, this is something new, which is why it's one, worse then appears, and two has no solution as yet. It will get much worse and may lead to the colapse of the world economy.

I'm sure there is no way you and I will ever agree on this, time will tell, you like him, I hate him, Think it's safe to say I'm in good company.

But your a good dude, and we won't convince each other, I just don't want there to be hard feelings over this, I love a good argument. or any argument for that matter.

[Elfie]

I'm sure there is no way you and I will ever agree on this, time will tell, you like him, I hate him, Think it's safe to say I'm in good company.

Hate is such an ugly thing.

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

WOW, pull your head out for a bit of air, LOL. put the GOP card away for a bit. Let me know what drug it is your on so that I too can see only what I'd like too.

WOW, where do i begin, this could go on for a long time, not sure i want to dedicate my day to converting your opinion which has no chance anyway.

your last question first, who will i hate, George has done enough damage to fuel my hate of him for years and years after he is gone. no problems there.

Congress and the American people were flat out "LIED" to by this president, on going into Iraq, George Bush in and of himself has bankrupted the US government by borrowing from the federal reserve the money to promote this war in Iraq, and by spending the 3 trillion dollar surplus the US had when he became president, he is a fool, idiot and a lier, he should be hanged.

I am not a republican or a democrat, they are equally responcible for the mess this country finds itself in, which by the way you have yet to feel the full force of. As far as recession goes, that depends who you ask, which if you'll take note, i didn't, the fact is our economic state has no clear definition as yet, this is something new, which is why it's one, worse then appears, and two has no solution as yet. It will get much worse and may lead to the colapse of the world economy.

I'm sure there is no way you and I will ever agree on this, time will tell, you like him, I hate him, Think it's safe to say I'm in good company.

But your a good dude, and we won't convince each other, I just don't want there to be hard feelings over this, I love a good argument. or any argument for that matter.

First off, my head is right where it belongs. Do NOT make statements like that and then tell me you do not want hard feelings. Do NOT "salute" me AFTER making a statement like that.

For someone who likes a good argument, you lack a grasp on facts and methods of arguing. That in itself renders you incapable of offering a good argument. Further, you fail at spelling AND grammar, making your argument even harder to read, never mind give any credence to.

I do not take drugs, save the rare aspirin taken for headaches acquired from suffering fools. The hate you're washing down with the kool-aid clouds your vision so badly that you do not rate another detailed response.

[Elfie]

The hate you're washing down with the kool-aid clouds your vision so badly

Just one reason why Hate is such an ugly thing.

[Elfie]

Totally off topic here....but I just gotta say, good to see you posting again Sandman.