Happy 60th Birthday, Berlin airbridge

[Boroda]

Boroda, why would the allies fly so much stuff around if Berlin actually had access to most goods?

Even if what you say about the worthless money is true (in light of the emerging cold war at the time it just might).. do you think it was a good idea to cut off Berlin from supplies which, if nothing had be done, would have caused two million people to starve?

2 326 406 tons were delivered by Western pilots. Do you seriously think it was enough to supply the huge city with food, fuel and all things?!

Most of the supplies were smuggled from Soviet zone, I hope you remember that a Wall was built only in 1961. In Autumn 1948 George Marshall got an intelligence report saying that the blockade is ineffective.

What we get as a result: brilliant propaganda show, that cost lives of 70 brave pilots.

If your regime didn't want them to starve - they'll probably not start this crap with new currency or pay Soviets with solid gold, instead of declaring that starving Soviet people should give their last shirt to the West. Look, in 1947 millions of people in the USSR were starving, I mean - starving to death.

Altruism from so-called "free world countries"??? Worst nonsense I have ever heard.

There are a lot of people who don't buy into all of the negative propaganda against your country during the cold war, however, in this case, the "evil russians" (you play the victim card so often, there's no need for that) brought that image on themselves just fine.

Victim card!? We get blamed for everything you guys diddlyed up in XX century just because we didn't want to die, and you call it a "victim card"!? You guys will sooner or later make us understand that we have nothing to loose, and if we'll try to do at least 1/2 of what we got accused of - you'll regret it.

[Angus]

2.3 Million tonnes for 2 million (?) people means a ton of goods per person, - at least.
I guess they didn't need that in the first place, since the bear was playing kind to them
Same old Boroda..........

[Boroda]

2.3 Million tonnes for 2 million (?) people means a ton of goods per person, - at least.
I guess they didn't need that in the first place, since the bear was playing kind to them
Same old Boroda..........

Only a ton of goods for a year? How about coal? How about other commodities? How about fuel for power-stations, cars, etc?

[Stampf]

"wow"...is all I can say here.

[Boroda]

And Communism didn't last 10 seconds. If an IL2 plant in ww2 met high production goals, they received bonuses. That is Capitalism.

Who said we had Communism here? We had Soviet Socialism. And it's original version was built on bonuses, the stagnation began in mid-50s when Nikita thought that it's a good idea to save money on motivation.

You guys really don't know anything about life in USSR.

[33Vortex]

Sometimes, people do good things without regard or care for recognition. A wise man once talked about that at length.

In the case of Berlin, losing the city to Stalin would have been a disaster for the Western powers.

JFK, RIP

Hah, they had already lost Berlin in WW2, Stalin played USA and Britain in one of the biggest con tricks in history.

[RAIDER14]

any thread with Boroda in it is a good one



  to the brave airlifters

[Angus]

Boroda,read this. Have a beer before you do it
Here is the USSR point of the blockade:
"The Berlin Blockade (June 24, 1948 – May 11, 1949) was one of the first major international crises of the Cold War. During the multinational occupation of post-World War II Germany, the Soviet Union blocked the three Western powers' railroad and street access to the western sectors of Berlin that they had been controlling. Their aim was to force the western powers to allow the Soviet controlled regions start supplying Berlin with food and fuel, thereby giving them nominal control over the entire city."
Here is the Allied response:
"In response, the Western Allies formed the Berlin Airlift to supply the city over pre-arranged air corridors. The effort was initially viewed with skepticism even in the countries mounting the attempt, as this sort of logistical effort had never been mounted before; the airlift to supply the German 6th Army at Stalingrad required 300 tonnes per day and rarely came even close to delivering this, the Berlin effort would require at least 5,000 tonnes a day, well over ten times as much. In spite of this, by the spring of 1949 the effort was clearly succeeding, and by April the airlift was delivering more cargo than had previously flowed into the city via rail."
And here is the results:
"The success of the Airlift was humiliating to the Soviets, who had repeatedly claimed it could never possibly work. When it became clear that it was, the blockade was lifted in May. One lasting legacy of the Airlift are the three airports in the former western zones of the city, which served as the primary gateways to Berlin for another fifty years."

As for the coals, they were flown in when the blockade lagged into the winter. Actually, Berlin needed about 1.500 tonnes of food per day out of the 5000 tonnes flown in. When the coal transport went full power, there actually was enough coal, although the coal supplies of the city went down to a week's supply at one point.
BTW, at the time there was serious shortage of i.e. coal in eastern Europe. One sad incident for us flight geeks was that the famous "Colditz cock", the secretely built glider for a planned escape from Colditz castle was chopped down for the fire.....

[Boroda]

Boroda,read this. Have a beer before you do it
Here is the USSR point of the blockade:
"The Berlin Blockade (June 24, 1948 – May 11, 1949) was one of the first major international crises of the Cold War. During the multinational occupation of post-World War II Germany, the Soviet Union blocked the three Western powers' railroad and street access to the western sectors of Berlin that they had been controlling. Their aim was to force the western powers to allow the Soviet controlled regions start supplying Berlin with food and fuel, thereby giving them nominal control over the entire city."

Unfortunately I am at the big office now and can't afford my usual beer-at-work

Look, I use Occam's razor, the text above is a figment of some imagination when it comes to explaining reasons for blockade. Soviets were not so stupid to force Berlin to take supplies from them. Who you think supplied the enclave before the blockade?

[bj229r]

"Keptain, actually Berlin WANTED to be blockaded, as food shortages, a RUSSIAN invention I might add...

[Angus]

Unfortunately I am at the big office now and can't afford my usual beer-at-work

Look, I use Occam's razor, the text above is a figment of some imagination when it comes to explaining reasons for blockade. Soviets were not so stupid to force Berlin to take supplies from them. Who you think supplied the enclave before the blockade?

Berlin was supplied by rail. From the west.....
Tell me, what is your opinion for the reason behind the blockade?

BTW, I have zig-zagged E-Europe to some extent, and oddly enough, all the inhabitants that I met must have sonspired, for they all have stories of between shortage and starvation from the USSR. Odd, isn't it?

[Boroda]

Berlin was supplied by rail. From the west.....
Tell me, what is your opinion for the reason behind the blockade?

Sure, electricity, water, stove gas and other things were supplied by railway

I have wrote the real reasons above, this thread isn't too long to fing it.

BTW, I have zig-zagged E-Europe to some extent, and oddly enough, all the inhabitants that I met must have sonspired, for they all have stories of between shortage and starvation from the USSR. Odd, isn't it?

Shortage and starvation? Why didn't your vis-a-vis just go work and earn some money to buy everything in the market for a little more money then fixed government price? 

Last real starvation happened in 1947. Were they old enough to remember that?...

BTW if you'll come to Eastern Europe again - maybe you'll visit Moscow or Leningrad so we can drink a glass or two?

[Angus]

Not so sure how electricity was supplied and how reliable it was. Nor about it's source, since powerplants running on either coal or oil can create electricity.
In the summertime in Berlin, you can easily get around the usual business without heating, if you just have something to cook, and cook with.....The real trouble began when winter arrived..
As for shortage and starvation in E-Europe, you really shought check out the Baltics....like Lithuania.
They were sort of saved by the existance of potatoes, and had to go around for long with a secret stock.
Their opinion of the USSR, well, let's say that a Russian flagging your opinions in Vilnius would not be very safe.....
I was in Poland as well, they would joke about that when a soviet soldier asked for the time, it was to check if you had a watch, so it could be taken.
The landlady where I stayed worked as a store displayer, - putting products in the windows. The catch was, that most of the time she was displaying products that were not available. (except for the ones in the window), so no money would buy you anything
Now we may know little of the life in the former USSR, but I claim that I know more than you about some sides of the life in the USSR occupied countries.....And I have the west to compare with

[Angus]

Oh, and Moscow, absolutely want to go there. But how is Leningrad?
And if you have to jump the pond remember that little island. Will give you a ride as well as the local...cough...Schnapps