US Navy VS German Luft ??

[Damionte]

Was there a real world campaign where F4U's and F6F's met Fw-109's and 190's.

I was under the assumption that the Atlantic a Med theaters didn't receive these aircraft.

[Motherland]

The British Fleet Air Arm used F4U's and F6F's against the Luftwaffe in the North Sea IIRC.

[Rino]

     F6Fs saw combat during the invasion of Southern France.  I can't remember
if they engaged LW fighters or not.  Might want to google Operation Dragoon.

[Widewing]

Was there a real world campaign where F4U's and F6F's met Fw-109's and 190's.

I was under the assumption that the Atlantic a Med theaters didn't receive these aircraft.

USN F6F-5s and FAA Hellcat Mk.Is, along with USN FM-1s saw combat during the invasion of southern France. No 109s or 190s were engaged (those seen, promptly skedaddled). However, a number of bombers and transports were shot down. The Navy fighters were primarily involved in ground support and interdiction. Navy FAC pilots were flying borrowed P-51Cs and operated from shore bases.

My regards,

Widewing

[Lusche]

The British Fleet Air Arm used F4U's and F6F's against the Luftwaffe in the North Sea IIRC.

In 1944, British F6F's escorted raids against the Tirpitz in Norway. There were some fights vs German fighters with some (if I recall correctly) good results for the Hellcats. But I don't have any reliable numbers in my memory right now *scratchscratchgettingold*

[whiteman]

actually looked at something an hour ago.

heres what i found:

The FAA also employed the F6F and the F4U. The only fighter-to-
fighter FAA F6F action took place in May 1944. On 8 May, F6F's
from the Fleet Air Arm's No. 800 Squadron (Lieut. Comdr. SJ
Hall, DSC, RN), off HMS Emperor, while escorting a flight of
Barracudas was attacked by a mixed group of Me-109's and FW-
190's. Two F6F's were lost, one, probably, to anti-aircraft fire
(one source indicates that both F6Fs were lost in a mid-air
collision, not to any German fire of any kind); the Germans lost
2 Me-109's and one FW-190. The FW-190 was claimed by Sub-Lieut.
Ritchie.

http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/aviation/fw-190a5-vs-f4u-1d-f6f-3-a-840.html

[Angus]

I do recall an account of F6F's getting into a scruffle with 109's and shooting some

[Saxman]

The only American F4Us I'm aware of that were slated to engage in combat operations in Europe belonged to VMF-512, I think it was. The intent was to use them to take down V1 launch sites with Tiny Tim rockets, however the USAAF refused to allow Marines to engage in operations in "their" war.

[Ack-Ack]

Wildcats engaged the Vichy French air force during Operation Torch.  Shot down 15 Vichy H75's to 7 Wildcat losses.


ack-ack

[Angus]

From the top of my head, F6F's intercepted 109's off the coast of Norway, but I'll have to look it up.
F4F's also tackled 109's in the med.
In all cases the US aircraft came out on top.
They may all have been flying for the RN though....will look as soon as I find the book.

[Rich46yo]

Going into 1944, and certainly by D-day, any comparisons of fighter airplane quality vis-vis allies/German starts becoming foggy.

I have no doubt the Hellcat would have performed well but the simple fact is Luftwaffe losses and fuel issues were starting to disintegrate what was once a fine fighter arm. German industry could replace the aircraft but not the Pilot quality and by the middle of 1944 they were putting up kids hardly trained to fly let alone fight.

It created a murky picture of late war aircraft comparisons that I think still exists somewhat to this day.

Just thought I'd throw that into the discussion.

[Serenity]

Going into 1944, and certainly by D-day, any comparisons of fighter airplane quality vis-vis allies/German starts becoming foggy.

I have no doubt the Hellcat would have performed well but the simple fact is Luftwaffe losses and fuel issues were starting to disintegrate what was once a fine fighter arm. German industry could replace the aircraft but not the Pilot quality and by the middle of 1944 they were putting up kids hardly trained to fly let alone fight.

It created a murky picture of late war aircraft comparisons that I think still exists somewhat to this day.

Just thought I'd throw that into the discussion.

I agree 100% 

[Redlegs]

Would make a good snapshot.

actually looked at something an hour ago.

heres what i found:

The FAA also employed the F6F and the F4U. The only fighter-to-
fighter FAA F6F action took place in May 1944. On 8 May, F6F's
from the Fleet Air Arm's No. 800 Squadron (Lieut. Comdr. SJ
Hall, DSC, RN), off HMS Emperor, while escorting a flight of
Barracudas was attacked by a mixed group of Me-109's and FW-
190's. Two F6F's were lost, one, probably, to anti-aircraft fire
(one source indicates that both F6Fs were lost in a mid-air
collision, not to any German fire of any kind); the Germans lost
2 Me-109's and one FW-190. The FW-190 was claimed by Sub-Lieut.
Ritchie.

http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/aviation/fw-190a5-vs-f4u-1d-f6f-3-a-840.html

[Angus]

Ahh found my book.
In German, "Die Me 109" by Martin Caidin.
Example 1:
8. may 1944, Hellcats from HMS Emperor mix it with a gaggle of 109's and 190's outside the Norwegian coast. The German were all shot down without a loss to the F6F's.
Example II:
Wildcats from 882 Sqn jumped 109's over the S-Norwegian coast. The Wildcats bagged a 109 each without losses. The 109 pilots were belived to be novices and were taken by surprize.

It would be nice to find more about this. And I do recall an F4F encounter with 109's in the Med..

[Saxman]

I remember reading an account somewhere of a 109 pilot who attempted diving out on an FAA F4F, only to be surprised to find the Wildcat staying with him