Beating the turners

[BaldEagl]

what do you do if he gains alt in his avoidence maneuvers? it's pretty much a given that you're going to lose a little alt on each pass. if he's got enough energy though, he'll try to gain alt on each of your passes.

 i was flying a zeke, and did this to a 38 one night. problem i had was that he ran....not extended.....he ran. i gave chase for a couple miles, then decided to turn and see what he did. when i had completed my 180, he was out of icon range. kinda sucks, because i know who it was and this person is a very good 38 stick,,,,,,not as good as murdr, or akak, but still very very good........woulda been a fun fight.

<S>>

The key is not to allow him enough E to be able to gain alt.  That's why the reversals have to happen just outside of guns range.  You have to keep the pressure on him at all times, keeping him flat turning on the deck.  If he's gaining alt you haven't put enough pressure on him.  A Zeke might be a little better but a Hurri without E climbs like a dump truck.

It is not a given under these circumstances that you will lose E and start to lose alt with each pass.  The 109 with WEP can climb back to any alt it cares to with ease.

This tactic works in almost any plane against the TnB fighters.

BTW, great writeup saxman.  That's what I meant but didn't state it so eloquently.

[BnZ]

you don't understand what i was trying to say. i DID NOT expect him to turnfight with me. but i also did not expect him to simply run. even once i was coalt to him, he had a lot more options to fight. he's much faster than me in the climb, dive, and level. he could've used that to his advantage, and it could've been a fun fight for BOTH of us. it wasn't fun while he was b-n-zing me.

 
<<S>>

And as I pointed out, once his advantage was lost and you were on his six more or less Co-E, the P-38's E building properties aren't so much greater than an A6Ms (at typical MA alts) that he is likely to build a useable E advantage over a smart Zeke pilot in a timely manner, I.E., within the 30 minutes or so of fuel planes on average carry in the MA. And if he couldn't beat you from his initial position of advantage, he is not going to beat you once he has blown that position.

I'm sure it was QUITE  fun for HIM while he was b'n'zing you, up until the moment he realized he hadn't achieved a gun solution and had lost position. Then I'm sure he was cussing himself up one side and down the other for screwing up. I would be in his shoes.

Making the other plane go boom=fun. The other plane making you go boom=diametric opposite of fun. Bugging when you could have had a kill SUCKS, but it beats the hell out of "XXX shot you down."

[CAP1]

When you up a Zero, you are pretty much guaranteeing that most of the plane set is going to be forced to attacking you with E tactics and disengaging once energy parity is achieved

if i recall, i upped a zeke for that run as we were defending......most of the lower enemies had been dispatched by then, so i went out from the field to climb abnd wait for them. that's when i came under the higher 38.......

[CAP1]

And as I pointed out, once his advantage was lost and you were on his six more or less Co-E, the P-38's E building properties aren't so much greater than an A6Ms (at typical MA alts) that he is likely to build a useable E advantage over a smart Zeke pilot in a timely manner, I.E., within the 30 minutes or so of fuel planes on average carry in the MA. And if he couldn't beat you from his initial position of advantage, he is not going to beat you once he has blown that position.

I'm sure it was QUITE  fun for HIM while he was b'n'zing you, up until the moment he realized he hadn't achieved a gun solution and had lost position. Then I'm sure he was cussing himself up one side and down the other for screwing up. I would be in his shoes.

Making the other plane go boom=fun. The other plane making you go boom=diametric opposite of fun. Bugging when you could have had a kill SUCKS, but it beats the hell out of "XXX shot you down."

well, to be honest...i was just glad to have survived that fight............

[SlapShot]

I fly the 109k-4 a lot and I have problems killing planes such as the zero and the hurrri that have amazing horizontal manuevarability.  I just can't seem to get them in a position that they are too slow to manuever or were I have a snapshot.  What are some strategies that I can use to beat sharp turning planes like these.

You will never "out slow" a Zeke or a Hurri in a 109-anything.

If you are trying to kill either of those planes in the horizontal ... you will die most likely.

For the 109 to kill either of those planes, you must use the vertical to establish better angles for the snapshot.

[moot]

Not to split Slap's hairs again, but you can out-horizontal the best TnBers in the BnZ planes.. You just have the odds largely against you, and if you miss the target by even an inch.. You're even more likely to get nailed for the next 2-5 revolutions, till you regain some speed.

[Tr1gg22]

I fly the 109k-4 a lot and I have problems killing planes such as the zero and the hurrri that have amazing horizontal manuevarability.  I just can't seem to get them in a position that they are too slow to manuever or were I have a snapshot.  What are some strategies that I can use to beat sharp turning planes like these.

  If u have not yet check out agent360s training videos..He flys the k-4 in them ,and dukes it out with a few spittys..I think even a hurry  ,but I could be wrong about that...I no there are no zekes in there though.Still spittys turn better than the k-4 and he does a good job. and good luck!

[CAP1]

  If u have not yet check out agent360s training videos..He flys the k-4 in them ,and dukes it out with a few spittys..I think even a hurry  ,but I could be wrong about that...I no there are no zekes in there though.Still spittys turn better than the k-4 and he does a good job. and good luck!

WELL, i think that6 may be due to what others have said in other posts. although many planes have distinct advantages in certian situations, they can be overcome by smart flying.
 i think it's more the pilot than the plane. i've been in zekes and been beaten by planes that shouldn;t be able to. same for hellkittys, 38's hurricanes, etc.
 a skilled pilot in a fast plane i think can get away with turning with a dedicated turnfighter..as long as he knows when to disengage and reset the fight.

anyway, guess, maybe i should get back ingame more....especially judging by my performance last night. parts of my planes are littered all over the landscape of MW

[adamsri]

i'm sure i'm just repeating what everyone else already has but I enjoy flying both the spit and the k4 and the k4, imho is a pure BnZ fighter. It climbs like a bat out of hell and I do excellent in the vertical. The only thing that sucks about it is the fact that its fuel hungry (short range) and has limited cannon power. As soon as those cannons are out (use sparingly) then i'm rtb. Don't fight the spit/zero fight. Use that badass climb ability especially with the wep. the K4 is a monster and if you can learn to sneak in real tight and lay some cannon shots in on them then you are golden. Beware the crummy dive characteristics. I can't begin to tell you how many times i've augered in because I got fixated on the target or thought i had enough altitude to pull out. This is just a ballpark figure, not sure what the exact speed is but the K4's controls cease to work effectively after around 400kts in a dive. then you are f*cked. hope this helped

[BaldEagl]

Don't fight the spit/zero fight.

I consider myself to be a slightly above average fighter pilot.  One night I was flying a Spit IX and engaged a K4.  To my surprise, the pilot of that K4 turn fought me and not only did he turn fight me, he did so for a good five minutes with neither of us gaining an advantage.  I did finally get the kill but not until my palms were sweaty and my heart was racing.  I've run into that pilot on several occasions since then and all I can tell you is that when you do your in for a good fight.  He really knows how to handle that K4.

<S> Agent.

[Anaxogoras]

I consider myself to be a slightly above average fighter pilot.  One night I was flying a Spit IX and engaged a K4.  To my surprise, the pilot of that K4 turn fought me and not only did he turn fight me, he did so for a good five minutes with neither of us gaining an advantage.  I did finally get the kill but not until my palms were sweaty and my heart was racing.  I've run into that pilot on several occasions since then and all I can tell you is that when you do your in for a good fight.  He really knows how to handle that K4.

<S> Agent.

One of the best K-4 pilots in the game.  He puts himself into all sorts of long-shot situations where he usually ends up shot down, but out flies everyone during the whole fight before they get the kill.

[Tr1gg22]

One of the best K-4 pilots in the game.  He puts himself into all sorts of long-shot situations where he usually ends up shot down, but out flies everyone during the whole fight before they get the kill.

I remember Creaton he was the best I ever seen in a k-4... Dont no were he went last seen a few months ago but his kid  was flying with his tag..I went 1 on 1 with Agent a few months ago in all the 109 models..It was even till we got into the k-4.. 

[moot]

One of the best K-4 pilots in the game.  He puts himself into all sorts of long-shot situations where he usually ends up shot down, but out flies everyone during the whole fight before they get the kill.

Unless they wize up and run like chicken.

[Agent360]

I fly the 109k-4 a lot and I have problems killing planes such as the zero and the hurrri that have amazing horizontal manuevarability.  I just can't seem to get them in a position that they are too slow to manuever or were I have a snapshot.  What are some strategies that I can use to beat sharp turning planes like these.

Saxman has some very good points to follow.

I would add a few things.

Stay somewhat fast....less than 300. Each time he break turns you turn hard the opposite way and come around as fast as you can (pull to blackout and buffet). Miss his guns by going under or over in a lead turn. Take it up but stay close. Dont go up 2k away. Stay close. Keep your self turning into them. But also keep turning up. Gain your speed back coming down...turn the opposite way. go up and cut throttle some at the top roll and drop back in.

Always stay close. IF you get seperated more than 1.5 k you allow him to get E back.

You have to throw out some bait by turning into them. This will keep them pulling for guns.

You will usually end up catching them trying to turn back on you in a dive. And you will usually get close to get shots.

The point is to keep the pressure on. Stay close as you can. But use the vert climb and roll to stay out of guns.


Remember you can create an easy overshoot anytime by turning back into them....waiting for them to come for guns...go strait a sec then go up and roll over into them. IF you miss immediatly turn the opposite way from them and come around again head to head or make a lead turn again and go up and over. This works really good on zeeks.

Once you get the turns going into each other watch your throttle. Mangage it and use flaps.

Do NOT get into a sustained turn with any of them. Follow only for a half turn. Then go strait up and roll the opposite way from the turn. You will have all the E and they will have none. Now you can slow some of needed drop flaps and pull in for a shot. If you miss keep the opposite turning going. What ever you do dont follow into the flat turn. Keep the angles going.

S! thanks for the kind words guys.

[spit16nooby]

Thanks guys for all the help ill make sure to implement these tactics.  by the way I have watched and learned alot from agent's video.