Tone down bomber guns by 10%

[SpitLead]

Well I have to agree with ZOZO at least in part.  I think the affect of the guns should be weighted somehow.  I closed in on a JU88 on the 6 o'clock.  I know this is dumb BUT I'm thinking realistically I have the edge.  It's a light medium bomber with a pathetic tail gun (only 1-7.9mm I think).  I'm blasting away in my Spit with 2-20mm's and 4-303's and I get shot down!!!  I'm getting pings on him all over with NO visible signs of damage. The JU88s gun is a peashooter compared to the lead I threw at him.  My plane had red all over the place. I'm sorry but that's just not right (even from the 6 o'clock position).  Twin 50's should do more damage than one little 7.9mm but it doesn't appear it's modeled that way.  Too bad for me I assumed it was modeled at least somewhat realistically. On other bombers I don the duck and weave cause I know they have some punch in the tail but a JU88??!!  Come on!  Get real!

[flakbait]

Historically speaking, there were three angles that a bomber was vulnerable to. A 20º cone head-on, and directly above. Slashing attacks were nearly impossible to defeat due to the angles and speeds. Attacking from directly behind is suicidal, that's a given. But head-on attacks, with up to 7 guns on you, can't be done in AH. It should be only 5 guns, but since the ball turret can be elevated to about +5º you can fire through the aircraft with it. Known bug that still hasn't been fixed.

Lancs aren't trouble; they're flying targets. Some 30 caliber machine guns positiioned on top and on the front. A pair of 50 cals tacked on the rear, gee there's a real threat. Come at 'em from below and they're toast; aim for the wings.

B-26s are easy prey too. Above and behind or directly above are prime angles for a sure-fire kill. I vulched one guy 4 times simply by diving on him; this was done using a D-hog.

Ju-88s are easy to kill at any angle.

B-17s are impossible to kill from head-on, rear, and below. So you're stuck with slashing attacks, which work very well. In a single sortie I shot down a pair of B-17 using slashing attacks and a D-hog. 10 and 2 o'clock work best, and aim for the inboard engine. Dispersion will not only kill that engine, but maybe blow the wing off or cause a pilot-kill. Any other angle usually won't work unless you get the drop on the pilot/gunner. Attacks from above are sort of a grab bag; you might get him, he might get you. The same goes for strikes from below.

TBM-3s are also easy kills. Below and behind works, or a simple bounce from above. Again, aim for the wings to be sure of a kill.

Someone once asked me why he kept losing kills. Easy, he didn't keep shooting. If you blow an engine the guy can still ditch, but if you rip his wing off he's dead. Inflict enough damage to make sure he goes down. This means aiming for the wings or tail section. Once you've got him burning and going down all you have to worry about is someone stealing the kill. Or you can keep firing until the guy explodes, which wastes ammo in my opinion. Crutial if you drive a Yak like me.


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Flakbait [Delta6]
Delta 6's Flight School
Put the P-61B in Aces High
"With all due respect Chaplian, I don't think God wants to hear from me right now.
I'm gonna go out there and remove one of His creations from this universe.
And when I get back I'm gonna drink a bottle of Scotch like it was Chiggy von Richthofen's blood and celebrate his death."
Col. McQueen, Space: Above and Beyond
 

[SpitLead]

FlakBait,

Thanks for the tips.  Some of them I'm using now (I usually come up from the below or slasing from the 8 o'clock or 4 o'clock level positions).  The problem is, the setup time for the kill is long if you want to climb above him. I've found the best survivability in a Buff is to be above 15k - 20k feet is better.  And if the Buff driver is like me, he'll position himself so you're always looking at his tail giving you the worst approach (I've killed a lot of fighters that way flying a B17). Of course in real life this was never the case.  They flew in boxes and were enroute to their target.  Individual Buffs is the rule rather than the exception in AH.  This tactic also takes away the 20 degree cone frontal attack.  

On another note, you also made my point:

>> You said, "JU88s are an easy kill at any angle"

That's what I thought when I closed on his 6.  So Why did I get blown out of the sky??? The only conclusion is that this peashooter of a gun has way too much damage modeled. It needs to be toned down without making the JU88 driver completely defenseless (otherwise, where would the challenge be?)

[Karnak]

SpitLead,
A nitpick with your Ju88 encounter description:  He was hitting you with 2 7.92mm guns.  If you were approaching from 5 'oclock high or 7 'oclock high he would have only been hitting with one.

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We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother

Sisu
-Karnak

[-duma-]

If you go for a dead 6 attack against a JU88 you'll be hit by 4x7.7mm. I like to call this sonic warfare, I can only assume that vs US naval monsters the richocheting reaches natural resonance levels and their wings fall off   JU88s are hellishly vulnerable, I have to just try and outmaneuver any attackers and hope I can get the torps off accurately enough...

[popeye]

Zoso,

As a buff pilot, you have zero kills and three deaths -- and you think buff guns are too powerful???    

[Ripsnort]

There is a reason its called "Dead Six Attack"...it means avoid it.

[SpitLead]

Karnak - so let me get this straight. Even though the JU88 driver (or any BUFF driver for that matter) can only jump into a single gun position that has only ONE gun, if the other guns can get a shot at you in effect you are firing ALL of those guns simultaneously from one position??? (that's the only way I can see how 4 - 7.9mm's would be firing at me at least according to DUMA).  I think I've experienced this while in a PT boat and I see ammo being expended from multiple positions.  If this is true, then I'll have to rethink my attacks...

[BBGunn]

I have never experienced the one ping kill on a fighter while in a buff.  I believe I have gotten a pilot a time or two with a minimum number of pings by hitting the cockpit.  I guess there is damage cell there. How are the one pingers killed?  Pilot hit or what?

[BigMax]

  IMO -
BUFF attacks are not generally executed properly - and even when they are, as a COMPETENT gunner, you still have a good chance for the kill. Unless of course the Fighter was designed to kill BUFFs <Cannon Monsters>. Then you had better shoot straight!

You can configure your stick to fire individual mounts vice all guns. I use this when the fighter is really DWEEBY. Saves ammo for later in the mission.

I agree we need a better OTTO that is more realistic. 2 or 3 fighters working together is instant death for BUFFs. 'Cept when we turn our tracers off   and also allow for multiple gunners.

I'd also like to see a standardized BUFF gunner configuration... Not the very different configs from BUFF to BUFF. #X should always be the same position.

As far as single ping kills - I've had a few  , but generally when the sprite is in the cock-pit (PKd) - and mostly with cannons.

Pilot wounding??? Does AH assume that both Pilot & CO are wounded/dead or has this been over-looked .  I HATE BEING WOUNDED IN A BUFF! It seems very unrealistic to me. If the hit was that bad, Both should be dead.

Max - Out!

[SKurj]

Yes Spitlead, a gunner fires ALL guns that can hit the target, not just the one position he is in.  So from dead 6 on a 17, you are being shot by possibly the ball, and tail turret, in some cases you may have as many as 5-6 guns firing at you.

SKurj

[SpitLead]

Thank you SKurj for that invaluable information.  My attacks on bombers will now take that into account :-)

(there's a good reason there to fly bombers every once in awhile so you become familiar with their weaknesses like what guns are where with what shooting angles)