Author Topic: Tone down bomber guns by 10% (Read 323 times)

ZOSO · « **on:** January 27, 2001, 05:39:00 PM »

I hate to beat a dead horse, but when that horse is still at a full gallop...

I understand if you try to nail a bomber from his 6 you're toast, i can live with that, but when I make high speed beam or overhead runs and still get killed with 1 ping, that's just too much.

I understand they need to be hard to kill because they are rarely escorted in AH, but they are just too strong as they are now imho. I don't think a 10% reduction is unreasonable.

As it is now, I'm gonna join the ranks of those who just ignore bombers and apologize in advance to my coutrymen.

vega · « **Reply #1 on:** January 27, 2001, 05:48:00 PM »

Bombers are still too easy to kill. Further, bomber guns are manned by human gunners; they aren't auto gunners and it's impossible for a buf pilot to man more than one position....giving fighters a huge advantage over real life where they had 11 crewmen on a bomber. If anything, the bombers should be beefed up and allow more than one gunner at a time.

TheWobble · « **Reply #2 on:** January 27, 2001, 05:49:00 PM »

why dont you just try %10 harder to not get shot

ZOSO · « **Reply #3 on:** January 27, 2001, 06:07:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by TheWobble:
why dont you just try %10 harder to not get shot

Smartprettythang

To answer your question, I think i already have. When I started playing, I was getting shot down all the time attacking buffs from their 6, but I followed the advice of others and made the extra effort to make highside etc runs with the same results. It's just not worth it anymore.

(edit)
I just realized that part of my problem is my choice of aircraft. I usually fly either a D hog or P-38 which don't pack tons of punch like some others planes. You C hoggers won't understand this argument at all

. (it's two TWO TWO! whines in one!)

[This message has been edited by ZOSO (edited 01-27-2001).]

Torgo · « **Reply #4 on:** January 27, 2001, 06:13:00 PM »

I can't remember the last time I got pinged by a bomber on anything other than a dead 6 o'clock idiot approach.

This in combination with the thread about field ack is really causing me to believe there are user-side hardware/software issues making some people more vulnerable to ack/buff guns than others.....

Tac · « **Reply #5 on:** January 27, 2001, 08:06:00 PM »

Actually, buff guns need to have each gun to have its own AI.

This super-convergance crap is screwing up buffs. I fly buff, I feel bad when I single-ping a fighter. I fly fighter and pray to god that the gunner isnt watching me when I do my high-angle hi speed non-6 approach.

I'd say to give EACH buff gun the AI the field ack has and let a human gunner take control of any gun they want and/or allow full human gunners.

AW with its full human gunners has the buffs "right". They eat a good amount of lead to go down, their full human crew is a pain to deal with (but is realistic and fun) and there is little chance for a SINGLE, lone wolf buff to go against 4 fighters, because in AH a single buff has a good chance of shooting down 3 or 4 attackers with no problem.

My point is, if I, as a fighter have to be FORCED to resort to tricking the single buff gunner into a situation where he cant see me or cant switch to the right gun position in time and/or get a number of my fellow fighters to bring down ONE damn bomber I want it to be fair and make the BUFF guy to bring escorts with him OR fly in formation with other buffs.

A couple of nights ago, a group of 5 Lancasters in formation gave me HEADACHES when trying to attack them. Lanc's guns dont single-ping kill, and they are not ju-88 dart guns either.. they require a decent burst of lead to kill a fighter. I could dive, do high angle attacks, etc... the concentrated firepower was amazing. I ended up diving home with a LOT of my plane in the red and only one engine (P38) left. I believe I managed to hit a Lanc and get one of his engines to leak, but that was it. THAT was a great example of how I think buffs should fly.

Jimdandy · « **Reply #6 on:** January 27, 2001, 08:26:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Torgo:
...This in combination with the thread about field ack is really causing me to believe there are user-side hardware/software issues making some people more vulnerable to ack/buff guns than others.....

I am beginning wonder about that myself. I don't know enough about computers and the net to say for sure. Just speculation.

Karnak · « **Reply #7 on:** January 27, 2001, 09:16:00 PM »

Maybe more of a wetware issue...

My record agaist bombers is far, far in my favor.

Tac,
If you fell that way start flying the Lancaster and Ju88. All the Lanc really has is the tail turret with a mere 300rpg and the poor Ju88 is practically unarmed.

That said, my overall K/D ratio in the Lanc is pretty close to 1/1.

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We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother

Sisu
-Karnak

Sunchaser · « **Reply #8 on:** January 27, 2001, 09:38:00 PM »

I sure wish I got 1 ping kills on fighters!

I have never, never seen a fighter go down with 1 ping from my end.

They are lit up proper with hit sprites and even then many survive.

The bomber guns may be a bit tough on you fighter jocks but if you take the time to set up your attack you will get me everytime.

Patience is the key to wasting AH bombers and fighter jocks are short on that particular virtue.

I do not feel I must lose my small advantage to satisfy your lust for quick, easy kills.

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When did they put this thing in here and WTF is it for?

TheWobble · « **Reply #9 on:** January 27, 2001, 09:44:00 PM »

i have hammered fighters in a buff (50 cals) and still had them shoot me down, I have never had this "1 ping" phenominon that is being mentioned, I have had it from field ack and fleet ack but never from a player controlled gun of any kind...accept the osti.

Tac · « **Reply #10 on:** January 28, 2001, 01:24:00 AM »

1st ping breaks the plane apart. The other dozen pings you get after you are a fireball.

I do fly lancs, and their guns are quite adequate. I fly a b17 or b26 and i am a demi-god on PMS.

Midnight · « **Reply #11 on:** January 28, 2001, 01:45:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Tac:
A couple of nights ago, a group of 5 Lancasters in formation gave me HEADACHES when trying to attack them.. <snip> ..I could dive, do high angle attacks, etc... the concentrated firepower was amazing. I ended up diving home with a LOT of my plane in the red and only one engine (P38) left. I believe I managed to hit a Lanc and get one of his engines to leak, but that was it.

Attacking any buff should always be done in at least pairs. Hit them from 2 sides at one time. The buff can only shoot at one of you. THe guy who get shot at peels off while his wingman comes through and tears the buff up.

13th TAS came accross something like 6 or 7 Lancs a while back. We shot them all down, including most of their escorts with out loosing any of our planes. (We were all in P-51s)

Lancs are easiest buff kill to ask for. It is slow, can't maneuver and has very weak turret guns that are disabled very easily.

You want the film? I'll send it to you.

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"Wing up, Get kills, Be happy"

Midnight
13th TAS

"I see you have made your decision. Now let's see you enforce it." -Brandon Lee (The Crow)

LLv34_Camouflage · « **Reply #12 on:** January 28, 2001, 02:49:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Sunchaser:
I sure wish I got 1 ping kills on fighters!

Try the 30mm MK108 cannon, found on 109 G-6, G-10 and FW 190 A-8.

Camo

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Camouflage
XO, Lentolaivue 34
www.muodos.fi/LLv34

Brewster into AH!

"The really good pilots use their superior judgement to keep them out of situations
where they might be required to demonstrate their superior skill."

Major Tom · « **Reply #13 on:** January 28, 2001, 06:02:00 PM »

It only takes a couple of pings with a 30mm ;-) To tell you the truth I find fighters easy to shoot down in a Buff and Buffs easy to shoot down in a fighter. There enough morrons to go around.

Attacking Buffs with MG's is stupid. You need cannons.

There are only two attacks that work well against Buffs.

1) Below and more or less from the front
2) Directly above

With both #1 and #2 you can be virtually assured of not getting shot coming at the buff, though #1 works best on the B-26. Unfortunatley if you screw up #1, get ready for an enema. If you screw up attack #2, dive like a madman, swing around, climb and try again. When you do it right, even a B-17 Can't nail you if you come in from the top. Most times he won't even see you coming.

Attacking a Buff from head on is mutually assured destruction. Attacking a Buff from behind is suicide.

...and for your sake, no matter what you are flying keep an eye on that B-26 hovering above you! I use B-26's in an offensive role ALL the time. Right nice aircraft for it too! If you mess up your attack you can always go to your guns because odds are if he's stupid enough to let a B-26 get in that close, he'll be coming in the back way

Sunchaser · « **Reply #14 on:** January 28, 2001, 08:55:00 PM »

Good one Camo, me in a 109, or any fighter.

I am so bad in fighters the only kills I get are when attackers lose control laughing at my feeble attempts to escape and crash into something.

At least in a B17 I get a shot off sometimes and in C47s I can blame all my failures on the function of the airplane.

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When did they put this thing in here and WTF is it for?