Author Topic: Watermelons or ? (Read 204 times)

weazel · « **on:** March 15, 2000, 06:48:00 AM »

There`s been speculation in the past on the diameter of rounds as modeled in Aces High. After some recent experiences I`m beginning to wonder about this myself as it seems people can hit from angles that should be impossible or damn hard to get a firing solution on you. What good is trying to fly a good fight when all the F4U1c has to do is look and fire in the general direction to kill you? I dont think lethality is the problem as any H.E. cannon rds that hit you should do serious damage-but something seems wrong. Are the bullets and cannon rounds modeled to the actual size or inflated for gameplay purposes? If not realistic in diameter please reduce them in size so ACM is more of a factor than who has the biggest guns,it will be a lot more fun than what I`m currently seeing. The "big gun H/O" factor is way out of whack and really takes away from a lot of players enjoyment.

Lephturn · « **Reply #1 on:** March 15, 2000, 08:43:00 AM »

AFAIK Weazel, they are modeled accuratley, not the "high velocity basketballs" of the old WB gunnery. I think they are the "right" size.

BTW, I have no trouble with HO's. The only time I die in HO's is if I do something silly and get too slow to avoid it. If I'm up to speed and somebody goes for the HO on the merge... I own 'em. What the C Hog can do is kill with a snapshot very well. You must fly vs. the C hog in a manner that denies even snapshot opportunities. That is difficult to do.. but not impossible, you just have to approach it differently. IMHO of course.

------------------
Lephturn - Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs
Visit Lephturn's Aerodrome for AH news, resources, and training data.
http://users.andara.com/~sconrad/

"MY P-47 is a pretty good ship
And she took a round coming 'cross the Channel last trip
I was thinking 'bout my baby and lettin' her rip
Always got me through so far
Well they can ship me all over this great big world
But I'll never find nothing like my North End girl
I'm taking her home with me one day, sir
Soon as we win this war"
- Steve Earl

[This message has been edited by Lephturn (edited 03-15-2000).]

funked · « **Reply #2 on:** March 15, 2000, 06:11:00 PM »

Lep, I'm pretty sure they are bigger than actual size.

In the training arena the other night I aimed 10 feet below a con at 150 yds and somehow the bullets hit him.

Later that night I killed a plane that was BEHIND me.

Either the diameter of the rounds is huge or the hit detection is questionable.

I'll try to get some film.

Maniac · « **Reply #3 on:** March 16, 2000, 07:21:00 AM »

Keep up the good work funked, i still think its to easy to hit/kill someone at long range.

Sure it may be realistic gunnery modelled now but if we are gonna have realistic modelled gunnery the range counters gotta go.

Sick of d8-d1.5 spray and pray dweebs.

------------------
AH : Maniac
WB : -nr-1-

http://www.rsaf.org/osf/

[This message has been edited by Maniac (edited 03-16-2000).]

Lephturn · « **Reply #4 on:** March 16, 2000, 07:56:00 AM »

Well there is dispersion effects modelled in the game funked... so where you aim and where the shells go are not necessarily the same thing.

As to shooting somebody who's behind you... well that sounds like a lag issue.

I would be interested in some film... these are things we can test in the TA. If I see ya up we'll go over there and blast each other to tinsel. <G>

------------------
Lephturn - Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs
Visit Lephturn's Aerodrome for AH news, resources, and training data.
http://users.andara.com/~sconrad/

"MY P-47 is a pretty good ship
And she took a round coming 'cross the Channel last trip
I was thinking 'bout my baby and lettin' her rip
Always got me through so far
Well they can ship me all over this great big world
But I'll never find nothing like my North End girl
I'm taking her home with me one day, sir
Soon as we win this war"
- Steve Earl

[This message has been edited by Lephturn (edited 03-16-2000).]

Duckwing6 · « **Reply #5 on:** March 16, 2000, 08:23:00 AM »

oh yea talking bout dispersion... isn't only 1 out of 4 bullets a tracer right now ?? T

hat would mean you only see 1/4 of the bullets flying but you see all your hits .. that might explain why even tho the tracers fly past you still get flashes from dispersed bullets you didn't see.

Correct me if i'm wrong tho .. (i'm testing that today offline strafing... that should show it ..)

Toad · « **Reply #6 on:** March 16, 2000, 09:32:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Maniac:

Sick of d8-d1.5 spray and pray dweebs.

Of course, to the S&P dweeb, the range could easily show as 400-900 due to net lag.

Objects in the mirror are closer than they appear.

There is absolutely no doubt that .50 mg rounds and 20mm cannon rounds have a far greater ballistic range than 1K.

The ACM envelope is larger here than in other games. Correctly so, IMHO. Keep those jinks and jukes going, boys and girls!

Maniac · « **Reply #7 on:** March 16, 2000, 09:44:00 AM »

Toad,

Common man. . u know that i know what net lag is and what it does. .

Everytime i get killed at ridicolous ranges i always ask my killer at what range he was. . .

quote : "There is absolutely no doubt that .50 mg rounds and 20mm cannon rounds have a far greater ballistic range than 1K."

Sure this might be true, but then we need to get rid of the range counters. . .

I will say this one more time : realistic gunnery + range counters does not belong in the same sim. . .

------------------
AH : Maniac
WB : -nr-1-

http://www.rsaf.org/osf/

[This message has been edited by Maniac (edited 03-16-2000).]

Toad · « **Reply #8 on:** March 16, 2000, 10:20:00 AM »

Maniac,

I think I've clearly posted before that I would favor some experimentation with Icons/Range Counters. Without going into details, many other ideas have been expressed on these boards but so far the outcry hasn't been loud enought to generate any real interest.

In short, I don't like the present system either. But since it's what we have, I've learned to live with it and use it.

What does your killer say when you ask range?

I've taken long shots at targets when I felt the situation required it. (If I'm low and slow and getting worked over by a B&Z aircraft, I WILL try to disable/extend him with long range shots. It's clear that I'm never going to get anywhere near an equal E situation, so I do what I can to counter.)

Now, I don't shoot past 1k on _my_ FE, but I have routinely tried 600-900 yard shots. I have no idea what the other guy shows but I bet it's more than I'm showing. The ONLY guys I hit are the ones that do a "straight out extend".

I rarely get any kills this way, but I have run off a few guys, made them extend further or something. That allows me time to build E, for squadmates to ride to the rescue, etc.

Lastly, I'll suggest that, by now, I think I can pretty much tell when a guy is beyond 1k without range counters, just from the way my FE presents the plane shape. There's a shape change right at 1K, isn't there? Therefore, after the change, the guy is defacto inside 1k. If he wants to fly straight and level or shallow climb and I want to practice my long range gunnery.....he's vulnerable simply due to ballistics.

Maniac · « **Reply #9 on:** March 17, 2000, 04:06:00 AM »

"so far the outcry hasn't been loud enought to generate any real interest."

I guess HT have to please the players that came from AW & FA wich is sad

"What does your killer say when you ask range?"

They are usually 100-150 yards closer then what i see but that still is an long way to shoot and hit at 1k-1.3k

Well i guess i have to hop in the C hog and spray like the rest of the dweebs <G,D,R>

------------------
AH : Maniac
WB : -nr-1-

http://www.rsaf.org/osf/

[This message has been edited by Maniac (edited 03-17-2000).]

Westy · « **Reply #10 on:** March 17, 2000, 07:30:00 AM »

"I guess HT have to please the players that came from AW & FA wich is sad"

That's one of the most assinine and puerile comments I've read here in a LONG time.

-Westy

Toad · « **Reply #11 on:** March 17, 2000, 07:31:00 AM »

One man's spray is another man's aimed shot.

crabofix · « **Reply #12 on:** March 19, 2000, 09:17:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Toad:

There is absolutely no doubt that .50 mg rounds and 20mm cannon rounds have a far greater ballistic range than 1K.

The maxed range of a .50 br is 2700 meters
this I know for a fact.
the "zero" is 500 meters, closer than this you have to adjust your sight "lower".
The accuracy and lethality is extreamly good, even at ranges up to 1500 meters.
Of course the ranges are for "ground" brownings. How things work in an aeroplane, oughta be not, to, much diffrent.
I think the MG is pretty good modelled.
accept for the german ones,who has a higher firerate than the brownings.
some planes had acctuly scooped sights and provition for singleshoots. In theory, you should be able to take out a plane with a single shoot, at ranges up to 1500 meters, but as the war started,It was shown, that it was just theory.

I think that the game (and it is a game) is to slow, it should be at higher speed, less time of reaction, to get more "reallife".
(no whine, or complaint, I like the game "as it is")
Then I doubt that any one would have time to adjust the sight to hit a target out of 400 meters, only under very rare conditions.
Sit down and start countin angels, speed of plane, bullet speed,etc,etc, deflection is not an easy affair.
But guys, really,what does it matter? It is the best there is, right? (the game)

Crabofix, "fresh fish over the counter"
Svenska Kungliga Flygvapnet.