Author Topic: Pickers and runners please help me understand...  (Read 5396 times)

Offline FireDragon

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Re: Pickers and runners please help me understand...
« Reply #15 on: July 09, 2008, 02:30:55 PM »
I decided to get in a few sorties this morning.  I ran into a all to common situation that honestly confuses me.

The set up...
There was a 109-K4 orbiting the base I took off from, I was in a Spit IX.  After several blown BNZ passes, I had equalized the E states, so he decides to run away.  Not wanting to waste time, I turned back to engage a P-38.  I dispatched him, and low and behold the K4 is back.  A few more blown passes, and he's gone again.  I take care of a 190, then land.

I re-up from a further back base to get alt on the K4 trying to give him some of his medicine.  No K4 to be found, so I start playing with a co-alt spit, and much to my surprise, the K4 is back, he blows a few passes again and extends, I go back to the spit only to have the K4 land a 30 on my wing. 

Pickers and runners, please help me understand what is the fascination with this style of game play.  Maybe it's a "your $15" thing, but what possible enjoyment can someone get from only engaging cons when they are already engaged and running from a 1v1 when you have an E advantage?  To me, 90% of the fun is the fight, not the winner.  I am so confused..


Was this player a new player or regular?    YOU already know the answer to your own question..... If its a noob it comes down to survival. In the context that  every one wants to land victories they just dont know a better way of doing it. Its going to take 6 months to a year to learn to acm.. Most are not going to stick around that long.

The only way your going to get better game play is if someone comes up with a better way of doing training....And this is not going to keep players like me who up temps once and a while and shoot anything that moves.  Ive thought about "what if two weekers were forced into a training squad"  but all your going to get is the guy in the k4 killing you on the first pass instead of taking all that time...

To me the K4 did every thing right for the abilitys he had...He had a fast plane.. He had alt. He had taters...and he MUST of had drop tanks :devil

The only thing you can pick on this guy for is being a noob..and not getting you on the first pass...

Its not like u didnt see him...you did and choose to stay and fight HIS fight the way he dictated...

Offline Motherland

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Re: Pickers and runners please help me understand...
« Reply #16 on: July 09, 2008, 02:31:33 PM »
There are those 51 pilots who don't need a tone of alt or speed to get  a "high % gun solution".
I can name 2, one that I've been up against personally.
51's just aren't very good planes compared to the other late war rides. 
The 51 is a great aircraft.

Offline Sunka

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Re: Pickers and runners please help me understand...
« Reply #17 on: July 09, 2008, 02:37:18 PM »
I can name 2, one that I've been up against personally.The 51 is a great aircraft.
The 51 is a great plane ...let em think all it can do is bnz i like it when i out turn someone and see the shock on their cartoon face that i just got on their 6 :rock
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Offline Steve

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Re: Pickers and runners please help me understand...
« Reply #18 on: July 09, 2008, 02:38:06 PM »
The 51 is a great aircraft.

The 51 isn't a very good aircraft compared to the other late war rides, especially at typical MA fight alts.  The stats bear this out, it is indisputable.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2008, 02:40:28 PM by Steve »
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Offline moot

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Re: Pickers and runners please help me understand...
« Reply #19 on: July 09, 2008, 02:40:48 PM »
moot, are you making stuff up again?  I don't think we fly much at the same time, because I can only recall a couple times when we fought in the arenas.

1.  You were running away in a 152 and augered as I was chasing.  Was kind of confused about that one.
2.  You were dancing the funky chicken in the 38 and called me out into the DA when I pointed that out (I declined).

P.S. that you call me "ana" shows that you don't even recognize my in game handle! :lol
Making stuff up? I don't think so!  Where's the context?  The only time I ran in a 152 from your pony was a long time ago, after chasing you for at least a sector and a half, because you couldn't fight on your own. You ran to your two or more friends, and it wasn't the first time in that flight either.    So IIRC I saw I was wasting my time expecting a fight and augered.  Lot quicker to get myself against someone with balls than doing the same defensive 3:1 flying I'd already been doing 100 times over.  I'd chased you for probably 10-15min knowing you were running straight to your friends which I'd already killed once, expecting that maybe you'd grow a set once we were in the middle of nowhere with 3:1 odds... But instead you just did some more crappy and soporiphic bore n snooze.. Sorry, complete waste of time for me.

Funky chicken is something I'll do to tards like you so they see what they look like from the other end..  It's a denial of a quality fight when I know I'm not going to get one.  That said, I'll only do it about once out of 50+ fights.
And that's not the only or most recent time I ran into you, "gavagai".  Every single time I've run into you, you've done the sorriest flying (mostly running) in the game, worse than the greenest noobs who at least jump on an opportunity to fight when they see one.    I have no idea how you haven't gotten kicked out of JG11 along with Syrax, or whatever his name was.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2008, 02:44:33 PM by moot »
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Offline Sunka

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Re: Pickers and runners please help me understand...
« Reply #20 on: July 09, 2008, 02:41:33 PM »
The 51 isn't a very good aircraft compared to the other late war rides, especially at typical MA fight alts.  The stats bear this out, it is indisputable.
Maybe people just are not skilled enough to fly it, because all they fly are spits and zeeks and 109's
Someday the mountain might getem but the law nvr will. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SP5EkvOGMCs

Offline Motherland

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Re: Pickers and runners please help me understand...
« Reply #21 on: July 09, 2008, 02:41:56 PM »
The 51 isn't a very good aircraft compared to the other late war rides.  The stats bear this out, it is indisputable.
The P51D is like the Ta152. Even though the stats don't show it as a good ride it is insanely good. I have kept up in turnfights with Spitfire Mk16's in both of these aircraft (below 5k), and done other things that most people will never realize that either of these aircraft can do because the only BnZ with them.
Maybe people just are not skilled enough to fly it, because all they fly are spits and zeeks and 109's
I'm curious as to how the 109 got lumped in with that crowd...

Offline Steve

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Re: Pickers and runners please help me understand...
« Reply #22 on: July 09, 2008, 02:43:40 PM »
Maybe people just are not skilled enough to fly it, because all they fly are spits and zeeks and 109's

The stats don't lie. I'm not talking about pilots.  :)
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Offline moot

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Re: Pickers and runners please help me understand...
« Reply #23 on: July 09, 2008, 02:46:28 PM »
The 51D isn't that bad.  I've done a run of duels against 2bighorn, Dedalos, and a few others furballers like them in K4s, and it held its own.. The K4 was only slightly outdoing it.
Hello ant
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Offline Steve

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Re: Pickers and runners please help me understand...
« Reply #24 on: July 09, 2008, 02:46:51 PM »
The P51D is like the Ta152. Even though the stats don't show it as a good ride it is insanely good. I have kept up in turnfights with Spitfire Mk16's in both of these aircraft (below 5k), and done other things that most people will never realize that either of these aircraft can do because the only BnZ with them.I'm curious as to how the 109 got lumped in with that crowd...

Compared to other late war rides, the 51 isn't very good.  Period. The stats bear this out. Out turning a spit 16 cannot be done by a pilot of comparable skill to the 16 unless the speeds approach 400 or there is a disparate amount in the  E states. I'm not saying you shouldn't enjoy your ride, I'm just saying it's a fact that the pony is inferior to the other late war rides. Indisputable.
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Offline Steve

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Re: Pickers and runners please help me understand...
« Reply #25 on: July 09, 2008, 02:47:31 PM »
The 51D isn't that bad.  I've done a run of duels against 2bighorn, Dedalos, and a few others furballers like them in K4s, and it held its own.. The K4 was only slightly outdoing it.
You prove my point.  I didn't say it was "bad" I said it is inferior.   It is.
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Offline Sunka

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Re: Pickers and runners please help me understand...
« Reply #26 on: July 09, 2008, 02:48:35 PM »
speaking of the 51 wth is its enm at 8 if its stats are bad?
« Last Edit: July 09, 2008, 02:50:10 PM by Sunka »
Someday the mountain might getem but the law nvr will. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SP5EkvOGMCs

Offline Steve

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Re: Pickers and runners please help me understand...
« Reply #27 on: July 09, 2008, 02:49:19 PM »
speeking of the 51 wth is its enm at 8 if its stats are bad?

..... compared to other late war rides. 
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Offline Motherland

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Re: Pickers and runners please help me understand...
« Reply #28 on: July 09, 2008, 02:50:01 PM »
It carries tons of ordinance, flies forever, and is a pretty good fighter despite what others seem to think.

Offline Guppy35

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Re: Pickers and runners please help me understand...
« Reply #29 on: July 09, 2008, 02:51:23 PM »
I have a few different thoughts here (I fly the K-4 frequently):

1.  This K-4 pilot sounds like he's still learning how to fly it and how to aim the tater.  He could easily have out-climbed you instead of the more traditional horizontal extension (not so much if you were in the ufo-like spit16).  I see lots of 51 pilots who are in the same situation: they know how to get lots of altitude and fly really fast, but can never convert their energy into a high % gun solution.  If it were agent360, pjk, or mondego they probably would have killed you on the first or second pass. :devil

2.  It's not just his $15, but also the strengths of his aircraft.  Spitfire pilots turn and turn like like a merry-go-round, but we rarely criticize them for it like we criticize a 51 for running.  Maybe if you and the other spit pilots promise not to turn so much, we'll promise not to fly so fast. :aok

3. Isn't it boring?  Well, yes and no.  Some of us get tired of the simple latch-on-his-6-and-don't-let-go-til-he's-dead approach that you probably call a "fight."  It's a youthful approach to air-combat, but a limited one that tends to the horizontal, and long tracking shots.  Appreciate this point: whereas you have many seconds to saddle up on a bandit and fire in your spitfire, that K-4 pilot has a firing window of about .25 seconds every time he gets to fire the tater.  If he misses, that spitfire has already turned around on his 6 to chase him! :lol
What double-speak. :huh

My final point should be this: hypothetically, that K-4 pilot might have been decent in a Spitfire, but he needs time to learn something different and...more challenging. :D

You are describing a timid K4 pilot.  There are a boatload of 109 drivers out there now, many of em wearing Muppet or BK tags that do amazing things in them because they want to fight and push the G14s and K4s to the limit.  I can think of a bunch of 38 drivers who go looking for a fight too and push those big targets as far as they can to learn what they can do, not avoid it.


In the end it's a battle of game play mentality.   For many of us, we understand that our time is limited to fly, we know that death is not real here and that our planes have an unlimited supply.  We also know that the joy of the game is testing yourself against another human being in a cartoon plane.

There is another group, many who have much more time to fly, who approach it from the idea that 'living' means something and that fighting from only the advantage is the way to go.  It's their dime, so go for it, but it's hard for many of us to understand as that's not the challenge for us.


A good example from the other night.  Two of us upped to check a large dar bar to the south of the base.  We ran into olskool in a 109 and someone else in a Zeke.  They were slightly above us and it appeared that both were coming down.  Olskool did and got a hit on me.  The guy with me ended up lock in with Olskool so I turned to the Zeke as it appeared he was coming down.  The second I turned towards him, he zoomed back up.  Olskool and the other guy had a knock down drag out and Olskool finally went down.  The Zeke left him hanging.  Even sadder is the Zeke kept moving towards our base and then dove in trying to vulch only to die to the ack.

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