Hats off to France

[BnZ]

i guess im the only one that thinks this is wrong..If she wants to dress like a ghoul,it should be her right.

The separation of religion from politics i think should be paramount here.It is not the govt's job to judge religions..They are all whack imho..And who is qualified enough to rule on these matters?

I agree on the matter of dress. Hell, I think people have the right to sky-dive naked without parachutes if that floats their boat. (As long as they don't hit my house or car on the way down.) That is not the issue here.

I also agree that religion is mostly whack (religion IMO, is also vital for human survival, that is another topic), but some religions are less keen on the slaying-the-unbelievers thing that others. The door-to-door evangelist is annoying, but considerably less so than the suicide bomber.

The issue is whether or not this immigrant was a good risk for France. They are not violating her rights by not letting her in. They are not taking anything she already has away from her. I think France made a good call for once. Who is to judge? I dunno, if you go to court in my country, you are going to be judged by a group of people almost certain to be ignorant of legal and technical details that may be pertinent to the case. You take your chances. Perfection is an elusive thing in human affairs.

[CAP1]

i guess im the only one that thinks this is wrong..If she wants to dress like a ghoul,it should be her right.

The separation of religion from politics i think should be paramount here.It is not the govt's job to judge religions..They are all whack imho..And who is qualified enough to rule on these matters?

you choose to move to a certian country, you assimilate to them. they have no obligation to cater to you. if you don;t like what they weant you to do, then you go somewhere else.

 as always, fairly simple. unless you're in the US that is, then the lawyers FUBAR everything.

""side note"" i STILL wouldn;t wanna live anywhere else in the world besides the good ole USA

[BnZ]

""side note"" i STILL wouldn;t wanna live anywhere else in the world besides the good ole USA

Iceland is looking better and better all the time...

[CAP1]

Iceland is looking better and better all the time...

but...isn't it melting? remember? we have golobal warming? in 3 milloin years you won't have a home

[Samiam]

Yes, hats off to any country that has no concept of basic human rights.

[SirLoin]

**(religion IMO, is also vital for human survival, that is another topic)**

Would you like to have a thread on that presumption? Have a seperate debate from this thread?

<S>

[BnZ]

Yes, hats off to any country that has no concept of basic human rights.

The right to live wherever you want is a basic human right?

Fine, I need a place to crash. I pick your couch.

[Yeager]

It (black veil) wouldnt be any big deal if it wasn't for all those sh*t for brains radical fundies blowing themselves up all the damned time.

[Samiam]

She isn't asking to impose herself on anybody else, as you would be if you lived on my couch (though maybe not, you might be fun to have around - I don't know you).

I claim France is FAR from a free country if you can be denied citizenship because the majority does not like what you wear or how you practice your religion.

Thankfully, the first 10 amendments of the U.S. constitution (are at least supposed to) protect us from the tyranny of the majority and place a higher value on individual freedoms than on the desire of the collective.

It is entirely hypocritical to applaud the SCOTUS for the Miller v. D.C. ruling, which secures an individual's right over the desires of the collective regardless of how "right" the collective thinks they are, and then applaud France for this action. This is just further proof that the E.U. is a socialist union that has no value of individual freedoms.

Sounds like you all would prefer that the U.S. go down this path too. Citizens must practice the state sanctioned religion, in the state sanctioned manner, wearing state sanctioned attire.

For a bunch of self proclaimed patriots,  it's interesting to see how far from the ideals of our founding fathers many of the folks here are.

[AKIron]

She isn't asking to impose herself on anybody else, as you would be if you lived on my couch (though maybe not, you might be fun to have around - I don't know you).

I claim France is FAR from a free country if you can be denied citizenship because the majority does not like what you wear or how you practice your religion.

Thankfully, the first 10 amendments of the U.S. constitution (are at least supposed to) protect us from the tyranny of the majority and place a higher value on individual freedoms than on the desire of the collective.

It is entirely hypocritical to applaud the SCOTUS for the Miller v. D.C. ruling, which secures an individual's right over the desires of the collective regardless of how "right" the collective thinks they are, and then applaud France for this action. This is just further proof that the E.U. is a socialist union that has no value of individual freedoms.

Sounds like you all would prefer that the U.S. go down this path too. Citizens must practice the state sanctioned religion, in the state sanctioned manner, wearing state sanctioned attire.

For a bunch of self proclaimed patriots,  it's interesting to see how far from the ideals of our founding fathers many of the folks here are.

Since France is very socialist, her wanting citizenship is exactly like someone sleeping on your couch, eating your food, using your toilet paper, etc.... Now that you've been corrected on that, how about considering whether a foreigner, who does not believe in the freedoms you were taught from childhood, should be able to vote your rights away?

[BnZ]

Matter of fact, I think CITIZENS should be able to do almost any damn thing they want here, as long as it doesn't interfere with me. Worship Satan, shoot heroin, fornicate in any way you can imagine (and some you can't), own a machine gun, fight voluntary duels, or type stuff on internet forums and look at porn all day long on their day off.

I simply see no reason why any country is obligated to buy themselves problems by importing citizens of other countries who WILL NOT fit in at all, WILL cause chaos, and who vehemently disagree with the ideals I stated above.

She isn't asking to impose herself on anybody else, as you would be if you lived on my couch (though maybe not, you might be fun to have around - I don't know you).

I claim France is FAR from a free country if you can be denied citizenship because the majority does not like what you wear or how you practice your religion.

Thankfully, the first 10 amendments of the U.S. constitution (are at least supposed to) protect us from the tyranny of the majority and place a higher value on individual freedoms than on the desire of the collective.

It is entirely hypocritical to applaud the SCOTUS for the Miller v. D.C. ruling, which secures an individual's right over the desires of the collective regardless of how "right" the collective thinks they are, and then applaud France for this action. This is just further proof that the E.U. is a socialist union that has no value of individual freedoms.

Sounds like you all would prefer that the U.S. go down this path too. Citizens must practice the state sanctioned religion, in the state sanctioned manner, wearing state sanctioned attire.

For a bunch of self proclaimed patriots,  it's interesting to see how far from the ideals of our founding fathers many of the folks here are.

[Samiam]

But you think a criterion for BECOMING a citizen is that you behave in a certain manner? After that, you can go nuts?

It's not a free country if we define freedom as "being free to act in a way that doesn't disturb the majority."

It's misguided to think that we would somehow be protecting the country by not allowing a devout Muslim to become a citizen so that they don't do something crazy like vote for another Muslim.

The strength of the U.S., up to now and for the time being, is that we put trust in these individual freedoms, knowing that wherever this takes us as a nation, it's certain to be a far better place than any society that doesn't have such freedoms.

[moot]

I think the biggest problem in this whole thread is people who haven't ever lived in France or french culture nearly enough to make an informed enough opinion on this.  It makes for good armchair theory; that's it.  Do I sound like Boroda yet?

It (black veil) wouldnt be any big deal if it wasn't for all those sh*t for brains radical fundies blowing themselves up all the damned time.

What's the connection here?

[CAP1]

She isn't asking to impose herself on anybody else, as you would be if you lived on my couch (though maybe not, you might be fun to have around - I don't know you).

yes, she IS attempting to impose herself on an entire country.

it SHOULD be very simple. if you know that country "A" lives by ruleset12A, and you don't like it, then you might want to consider country "B".

 what a novel and simple concept, eh?

[Samiam]

yes, she IS attempting to impose herself on an entire country.

it SHOULD be very simple. if you know that country "A" lives by ruleset12A, and you don't like it, then you might want to consider country "B".

 what a novel and simple concept, eh?

It IS a novel and simple concept - which is why it's odd that it needs explaining. But here goes:

France is France and it is what it is - so that's not what is in question. But this thread is applauding France for having the GUTS to behave this way and somehow suggesting that it's admirable and the United States should have these values and that's where we trip.

Say country A is the U.S. Say ruleset12A is the constitution, and particularly the Bill of Rights. I *thought* I knew that country A lived by ruleset12A, so any burqa wearing, practicing Muslim introvert who wants to live by ruleset12A should be welcomed as a citizen.

Apparently it's YOU who don't like ruleset12A, so perhaps there's another country you should be considering!