Author Topic: A whole bank company shut down by govt?  (Read 1904 times)

Offline Pei

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Re: A whole bank company shut down by govt?
« Reply #45 on: July 13, 2008, 04:00:17 AM »

... where is the money going to come from to bail out these people.... Print it.... drive the dollar down.

It's a good job that the surplus from the last 5 years of economic boom have been saved against bad times like this by an economically conservative administration...

Offline wrag

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Re: A whole bank company shut down by govt?
« Reply #46 on: July 13, 2008, 04:21:51 AM »
It's been said we have three brains, one cobbled on top of the next. The stem is first, the reptilian brain; then the mammalian cerebellum; finally the over developed cerebral cortex.  They don't work together in awfully good harmony - hence ax murders, mobs, and socialism.

Offline bj229r

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Re: A whole bank company shut down by govt?
« Reply #47 on: July 13, 2008, 06:26:43 AM »


We can't make anything anymore we have scrapped many of our factories and the others have to pay their employees a decent wage rather than pennies in China.

I am not against buying from Walmart just buy North American products. That way the money stay here doesn't go East.

If you think these are are good paying jobs at a $9 start WOW :O Minimum wage in my part is $8.75. Try and raise your family on that wage :rofl :rofl can't do it sorry. These are low low low paying jobs.

40 hours x $10 = $400 per week





Walmart=unskilled labor. If someone wants to earn decent money, acquiring a skill or an education is the path. WHY should Walmart, or anyone else, pay a 'living' wage, when the job qualification is being able to drag barcoded merchandise across a scanner, put said merchandise into bag, and return the customer the amount of change that shows up in the little window?
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Offline john9001

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Re: A whole bank company shut down by govt?
« Reply #48 on: July 13, 2008, 08:04:40 AM »
you people are so excitable, just slow down and take a breath, president obama and the democratic congress will fix everything next year.  :)

Offline SD67

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Re: A whole bank company shut down by govt?
« Reply #49 on: July 13, 2008, 08:05:35 AM »
:rofl
oh yeah that's the stuff...
:rofl
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Offline lazs2

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Re: A whole bank company shut down by govt?
« Reply #50 on: July 13, 2008, 08:18:38 AM »
why would anyone raise a family when they had no prospect buy minimum wage unskilled labor?

Wal mart is great for people who have at least two jobs in the family or for kids starting out.  It was never meant to be a job for a breadwinner to raise a family of six on.

lazs

Offline Baitman

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Re: A whole bank company shut down by govt?
« Reply #51 on: July 13, 2008, 10:56:58 AM »
you people are so excitable, just slow down and take a breath, president obama and the democratic congress will fix everything next year.  :)

The only thing the new president is going to do is break the news to the public that we are in bad times. There is going to be no money left (no savings for a rainy day) :huh
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Offline LePaul

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Re: A whole bank company shut down by govt?
« Reply #52 on: July 13, 2008, 10:59:11 AM »
why would anyone raise a family when they had no prospect buy minimum wage unskilled labor?

Wal mart is great for people who have at least two jobs in the family or for kids starting out.  It was never meant to be a job for a breadwinner to raise a family of six on.

lazs

Well said.  WalMart gets slammed for being in existence, offering low prices for goods and services plus employing people who would otherwise be unemployed.

I'd rather see them work, learn a skill and earn a living.  Even better, climb up the chain to better positions in the company.

Someone has to do those menial jobs, if not the kids working their first jobs, the adults who cant get anything else.  

Offline bj229r

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Re: A whole bank company shut down by govt?
« Reply #53 on: July 13, 2008, 11:15:04 AM »
doh! wrong thread......never mind :D
« Last Edit: July 13, 2008, 11:17:04 AM by bj229r »
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Offline Baitman

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Re: A whole bank company shut down by govt?
« Reply #54 on: July 13, 2008, 11:16:03 AM »
LE Paul :aok

Unfortunatly they are just one of many big box stores that bring stuff in, heck even fisher price and mattel large companies are getting their stuff made off shore rather than employing people that actually buy their product. Bigger profits for them but cuts their own throat eventually.  :aok
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Offline LePaul

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Re: A whole bank company shut down by govt?
« Reply #55 on: July 13, 2008, 12:27:19 PM »
Its a global market, they have to compete with others who have also lowered their labor cost.

Look how never ending generous benefits have all but killed GM.

Offline john9001

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Re: A whole bank company shut down by govt?
« Reply #56 on: July 13, 2008, 12:46:20 PM »

Look how never ending generous benefits have all but killed GM.


yes, the multi-million dollar benefit packages the CEO's get.

Offline 68Wooley

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Re: A whole bank company shut down by govt?
« Reply #57 on: July 13, 2008, 12:51:01 PM »
FFS will you all just calm down.

We're seeing the implosion of one market bubble (housing) whilst another is brewing up nicely (oil). There's nothing new in this.

Bubbles come and go, some people get burned, pensions take a bettering, life goes on. Nine times out of ten, the aftermath of the bubble bursting is exacerbated by panic bred on ignorance and media fear-mongering.

In the immortal words of the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy,

DON'T PANIC.

Offline LePaul

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Re: A whole bank company shut down by govt?
« Reply #58 on: July 13, 2008, 01:17:20 PM »

yes, the multi-million dollar benefit packages the CEO's get.

No idea if an MP# will snip a link, so here's a good read for you....

Siphoning G.M.’s Future
By ROGER LOWENSTEIN
WHO shot General Motors? The company’s stock is at its lowest level in 50 years, and its market valuation has plunged to $5.9 billion, less than that of the Hershey candy-bar company. The automaker is weighing yet another round of layoffs — and maybe even a fire sale of venerable brands like Buick and Pontiac.

General Motors once manufactured half the cars on the American road, but now it sells barely 2 in 10. Bankruptcy is not unthinkable for Detroit’s former king. The immediate cause of G.M.’s distress, of course, is the surging price of oil, which has put a chill on the sale of gas-guzzling sport utility vehicles and trucks. The company’s failure to invest early enough in hybrids is another culprit. Years of poor car design is another.

But none of G.M.’s management miscues was so damaging to its long-term fate as the rich pensions and health care that robbed General Motors of its financial flexibility and, ultimately, of its cash.

General Motors established its pension in the “treaty of Detroit,” the five-year contract that it signed with the United Automobile Workers in 1950 that also provided health insurance and other benefits for the company’s workers. Walter Reuther, the union’s captain, would have preferred that the government provide pensions and health care to all citizens. He urged the automakers to “go down to Washington and fight with us” for federal benefits.

But the automakers wanted no part of socialized care. They seemed not to notice, as a union expert wrote, that if Washington didn’t provide social insurance it would be “sought from employers across the collective bargaining table.”

Detroit was too flush to envision that it would ever face a financial strain. Ford and Chrysler signed identical pacts with labor, so all three automakers were able to pass on their costs to customers. Besides, the industry’s work force was so young that few workers would be collecting a pension any time soon.

But pension commitments last forever. They far outlived Detroit’s prosperity.

General Motors got into the dubious habit of steadily increasing worker benefits. In 1961, G.M. was able to get away with a skimpy 2.5 percent increase in wages by also guaranteeing a 12 percent rise in pensions. Such promises significantly burdened the company’s future. As workers lived longer, the cost of fulfilling pension commitments rose. And health care costs exploded.

By the 1980s, it was clear that the Big Three automakers faced a serious threat from Japan. But General Motors and the U.A.W. were locked in a mutually destructive embrace. G.M., fearing the short-term consequences of a strike, continued to grant large increases in benefits — creating an intolerable gap between its costs and those of its foreign competitors. Union officials feared to face the rank and file without a big contract.

In the ’90s, the consequences of maintaining a corporate welfare state became too obvious to ignore. In that decade, General Motors poured tens of billions of dollars into its pension fund — an irretrievable loss of opportunity. What else might G.M. have accomplished with that money? It could have designed new cars or researched alternative fuels. Or it could have acquired half of Toyota — a company that the stock market now values at close to $150 billion.

G.M. acknowledged in its most recent annual report that from 1993 to 2007 it spent $103 billion “to fund legacy pensions and retiree health care — an average of about $7 billion a year — a dramatic competitive and cash-flow disadvantage.” During those 15 years, G.M. paid only $13 billion or so in shareholder dividends. The company has been sending far more money to its retirees than to its owners.

After falling $20 billion behind on its pension earlier this decade, G.M. doggedly put money into its plan to catch up. It has also agreed to invest more than $30 billion in a fund to cover future health-care expenses. But these efforts have starved its business.

The sorry decline of General Motors has proved Reuther right: the government is the better provider of social insurance. Let industry worry about selling products.

Unhappily, however, the fate of many public-sector pension plans is even worse than G.M.’s. Responding to the same temptation to offload expenses into the future, public employers have committed to trillions of dollars in future liabilities. In New Jersey, a huge pension liability has created a budgetary nightmare for the state. The city of Vallejo, Calif., burdened by police pensions, recently filed for bankruptcy.

Just as G.M.’s shareholders bore the burdens of its pensions, states and cities will have to force taxpayers to sacrifice in the form of service cuts, tax increases or both.

It is too late to restore G.M. to its former grandeur. But if public officials do not show courage by quickly funding the pensions they have promised to their workers, taxpayers will soon find themselves in an even worse crisis than the one G.M.’s shareholders are facing now.

Roger Lowenstein is the author of “While America Aged: How Pension Debts Ruined General Motors, Stopped the N.Y.C. Subways, Bankrupted San Diego and Loom as the Next Financial Crisis.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/10/opinion/10lowenstein.html?_r=1&ref=opinion&oref=slogin

Offline crockett

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Re: A whole bank company shut down by govt?
« Reply #59 on: July 13, 2008, 01:39:13 PM »
Do you actually have the metal in hand? If all you have is a certificate you have less than if you saved dollar bills in a savings account in the bank. If you have just a certificate you invested in a company that says they have gold and will either produce the metal or give you another form of financial fiat but only if the company you invested in remains solvent. If they don't you do not even have the FDIC bank account insurance.

If you have metal in hand you then need to find a way to actually spend it by finding a person who will exchange it for goods in hand on a price or exchange rate you both agree on. That could be interesting engaging in barter vs exchange of government fiat at a set exchange rate.

lol yes this is exactly why I always laugh at people who claim investing in gold is the cure all. Unless you have it in hand, it's as worthless as a dollar if the economy fails.
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