TAGMA map bug?

[Easyscor]

Did you have a chance to find out what was causing the problem with the drones, or is there any confirmation from Skuzzy on the subtype issue?

Based on your statement about the subtype problem, I pulled and zeroed the appropriate tiles on a terrain that's waiting for Skuzzy, but I'd like to know if it's really necessary for my future work.

[MachNix]

Here is some background:
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,149210.0.html

I did not find anything unusual with the fields.  The subtypes under the fields where set to zero, the terrain was level and set to grass, the fields where centered, at the same elevation as the terrain, and non-rotated. 

I have not heard anything from Skuzzy about this particular problem, and I never heard anything about the original subtype problem being fixed.  I always set subtypes under fields to zero and have not gone back and tried repeating the situation to see if the problem would repeat.  This is the first I have seen where zero subtypes did not fix the problem and there was a difference between online and offline.  Apparently a terrain that works offline does not guarantee that it will work online.

[Easyscor]

Thanks MachNix. I noticed that Pyro never came back to confirm the problem was caused by the subtypes, and as you checked everything else it's still a mystery. The Terrain Team hasn't noticed subtypes to cause these problems, but that doesn't mean it wasn't an issue, could be Skuzzy's tools would catch it as an error and repair it.

Thanks again

[spacer]

Hi Guys
  Was upping Bombers from A190 on TAGMA again today 26 July and drone/s took off the wrong way again.  Saw another guy have the same thing happen.  Just letting you all know its not fixed yet.   

[MachNix]

spacer,

A terrain update (15 Jul 08) has been sent but has not been put online just yet.  Since sending the update, another bad spawn point was found that will require another update.  I would like to wait until the map is won before sending what hopefully will be the final update.  So, if you see a map date of JUN 08, expect to have problems with drones at A157 and A190.

It is also possible that you will always have problems at these two fields.  I have tried both of these fields online and off, and the problem does not happen to me.  I have made some changes to the sub-tiles but that may not be what is really causing the problem.  One would think that if the problem was something on your end, like a sound pack or using auto takeoff or bomber loading, that you would have the same problem at all the fields and not at only these two fields.  If it was something wrong with the terrain, everyone should have the problem and not just a few.

I would like to get this problem to happen to me offline so I could do some testing.  I have tried using the B-17 with different loads, auto takeoff on and off, and different flap settings without experiencing the problem.  What is your bomber configuration and takeoff technique?  Do you hold the breaks until you are at full power?  Do you lift the tail or hold back pressure to engage the tail wheel lock?  Do you leave the number 3 engine off and just take off with engines 1, 2, and 4?  Of course none of that is supposed to have any impact on losing the drones but obviously something is going on.

[spacer]

Machnix
  Hi I use Auto takeoff, dont hold brakes or play with power (full on).  Bomb Load is usually, 12 500 lbs.   Maybe it could be something in my map download.  I wont complain anymore till the map is updated again.     Will just keep it in the back of my itty bitty head, not to launch NE from 157 and 190 till then.  Thanks

[doc1kelley]

spacer,

A terrain update (15 Jul 08) has been sent but has not been put online just yet.  Since sending the update, another bad spawn point was found that will require another update.  I would like to wait until the map is won before sending what hopefully will be the final update.  So, if you see a map date of JUN 08, expect to have problems with drones at A157 and A190.

It is also possible that you will always have problems at these two fields.  I have tried both of these fields online and off, and the problem does not happen to me.  I have made some changes to the sub-tiles but that may not be what is really causing the problem.  One would think that if the problem was something on your end, like a sound pack or using auto takeoff or bomber loading, that you would have the same problem at all the fields and not at only these two fields.  If it was something wrong with the terrain, everyone should have the problem and not just a few.

I would like to get this problem to happen to me offline so I could do some testing.  I have tried using the B-17 with different loads, auto takeoff on and off, and different flap settings without experiencing the problem.  What is your bomber configuration and takeoff technique?  Do you hold the breaks until you are at full power?  Do you lift the tail or hold back pressure to engage the tail wheel lock?  Do you leave the number 3 engine off and just take off with engines 1, 2, and 4?  Of course none of that is supposed to have any impact on losing the drones but obviously something is going on.

Just wondering why auto-takeoff would have anything significant to do with it? 

All the Best...
    Jay
 awDoc1

[MachNix]

Okay was able to duplicate the problem using auto-takeoff and it appears to be some combination of auto-takeoff, preloading textures, and tile/sub-type that causes the problem.

If you use auto-takeoff and do not preload textures, you will most likely lose the #3 drone the first time you launch but it will happen again depending on the tile's sub-type.  After that, you are more likely to lose the #3 drone if the throttle is not at idle when you launch to the runway.

I will check to see if there is some combination of tile sub-types that will keep this from happening.

[MachNix]

After some testing, the problem of loosing the #3 drone has a terrain elevation component as well as tile sub-type when using auto-takeoff.  If the center vertex (the blue plus sign) of the tile on which the drones sit has a difference in elevation between -13 and -3 feet (-13 <= deltaY <= -3 ) from the field elevation, I did not find a sub-type combination for that drone tile that would prevent the #3 drone from rolling backwards.  But I did not try every possible combination.  There where some combinations where the drone would roll backwards when that drone center vertex was at the same elevation as the field (deltaY=0).

On the Tagma terrain, the drone center vertex for the NE launch of A157 is 3 feet below the field elevation.  For the NE launch at A190, the drone center vertex is 5 feet below the field elevation.  The SW launch for A190 is 29 feet above the field and I did not loose any drones.

My plan is to check the drone center vertices and set the ones that are in the "trouble" range (-13 <= deltaY <= 0) to either -14 feet below or 1 foot above the field elevation, and not worry about the sub-types.

That is all I have to say about that.