Author Topic: What is wrong with the AH Flight Model?  (Read 496 times)

Offline snafu

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What is wrong with the AH Flight Model?
« on: August 20, 2000, 06:20:00 AM »
Hi All,
 This is not a flame or a trol, I'm just interested. - and confused...

Checking through the BB & reading "Channel 1" I have noticed that every single aircraft & vehicle in AH appears to have a "porked" FM (No jokes about flying Panzers, you know what I mean).

Now, I don't fly a real plane or drive a real tank but..... I find it very hard to believe that HTC are making money out of what appears to be such a bad product. I accept that there are certain "gameplay" issues which mean that things are not as in real life. Billboard Icons, Inaccurate load outs etc.

 But, this is supposed to be a flight sim as opposed to an arcade game. I always thought it was realistic. Have HTC got it wrong? Or are the various flame wars etc I see around just whining? Surely if it was so bad HTC with all their years in the industry would have put it right by now.

Like I said I don't fly in real life although I have had a go. It generally feels about right to me. What about the rest of you. (And if it is so bad why do you stay)?

TTFN
snafu

funked

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What is wrong with the AH Flight Model?
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2000, 06:49:00 AM »
The only thing overmodeled is the whining.

Offline Ghosth

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What is wrong with the AH Flight Model?
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2000, 09:05:00 AM »
Heheheheh Well first off not ALL of us complain.   (Although it would be easy to do)

Personally I am enjoying Aces High MUCH more than anything else I've ever flown.

Are there a few things that could be fixed/tweaked. Shrug, perhaps, but thats HT's & Pyro's problem. All I have to worry about is doing the best I can with what I'm given.


Offline Westy

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What is wrong with the AH Flight Model?
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2000, 09:39:00 AM »
What Funked said.

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Offline snafu

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What is wrong with the AH Flight Model?
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2000, 09:48:00 AM »
Yea, That's what I thought  

Thanks Guys,

TTFN
snafu

Offline Stalker

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What is wrong with the AH Flight Model?
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2000, 11:03:00 AM »
What Ghosth said.


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Offline Karnak

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What is wrong with the AH Flight Model?
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2000, 03:41:00 PM »
I can't recall me complaining about a flight model being porked.  I just complain by asking for planes to be put into AH that aren't announced yet.

I think the answer is what Funked said.

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Offline 715

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What is wrong with the AH Flight Model?
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2000, 11:05:00 PM »
OK.. if you're trolling I'll bite...  

I think the AH flight models are designed to reward boom and zoom and punish turn and burn.  The planes loose E in turns rapidly.  Is this unrealistic? I have no idea.  The only ones who could comment on the dynamic performance model are those that fly real warbirds.. at $2M each I am not joining that group any time soon.  Does the bias have consequences?  I think it does.  In Air Warrior most fights were at 10 to 15K alt.  Then, in reaction to T&B Dweebfires, Confirmed Kill (then Warbirds) was created and typical fights rose to ca 20-25K.  Now in AH it is not uncommon to be flying at 30K and be bounced from above.  In that case there is not much you can do.. if you manouver, the fast E bleed turns you into a barage balloon easy target.  You can't manouver and try to extend because that 200ft neon icon you drag is always visible and the faster or higher E plane will find and overtake you.  Am I whining?  Yes.  Because for me to get my usual guaranteed fatal E advantage over targets I have to spend 20 minutes climing to near the service ceiling of the plane.  And often that does me no good anyway because my Spit will lock up in the dive at speeds below the normal full military level speed of other planes like the F4U or P47.  I think frustration with these energy related issues.. i.e. the long time to get E and the rapid rate of loosing E, lead to some of the radio whining about FMs: you pull on the stick to try to get a shot and now you're a blimp.  Perhaps the FM changes Pyro announced will improve the playability of T&B planes like the Spit and Zero.  I think that a non-neon arena would also help alot.  Since it was part of Warbirds I am curious why it hasn't appeared in AH.

715A

Offline StSanta

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What is wrong with the AH Flight Model?
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2000, 03:30:00 AM »
715,

this will probably be fixed in 1.04. But I will postulate that most will still fly in for a high initial merge.

I fly in at 22-23k as an average in the G10, sometimes 25k when I know the enemy has lots of time to grab. Nevertheless, if a high enemy wants to shoot me down, he better be ready to take it down into the weeds; I'll use all the alt I have for defensive maneuvers/trying to bleed his e, and then use the good deck speed of the 109G10 to reverse.  As a result, 90% of my kills are at an altitude of 3-8k.

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Offline maik

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What is wrong with the AH Flight Model?
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2000, 05:36:00 AM »
what funked and Ghosth said  .

Maik

Offline Pyro

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What is wrong with the AH Flight Model?
« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2000, 12:24:00 AM »
There's always going to be complaints, some valid many not.  If we find a valid problem, we'll do our best to fix it.  But therein lies the rub.  The more you do, the better you do it, the more attention you pay to it, the more people criticize and even nitpick it.  That's not a bad thing necessarily, it really depends on how it's communicated.  If we spend all our time chasing whines, we'd really have a screwed up game and would get nothing else accomplished in the meantime.  But if someone makes a valid point to us, i.e. provides us with useful documented information(opinionated rants not falling into that category), then that makes it easier for us to either agree or disagree and act accordingly and perhaps improve things.  

Probably the biggest factor in this is psychological.  Bias and expectation have a big influence on how people perceive things.  If you've ever studied psychology, you're probably well aware of many examples and case studies on the subject.  On this subject, it's quite common for people to have equally strong and diametrically opposed views on some things.  Expert 1 claims plane A is clearly "overmodeled" while expert 2 claims it is clearly "undermodeled".  It's like watching two rabid fans of opposing sports team argue the validity of referee calls.  Each one argues the validity of any call that goes against the team they are cheering for while the other cheers it as correct.  Vice versa when the call goes the other way.  If you really look at where many of the observations that are posted here are coming from, you tend to find that most of them come from a limited background.  E.G. the guy who mostly flies bombers thinks they get shot down too easily, the guy who mostly flies fighters think bombers are too hard to take out, the guy who flies one particular type of plane or planes thinks his is undermodeled or everything else is overmodeled, etc. etc.  I truly believe that it is bad for a player to play the game from such a limited point of view.  Not only do they cheat themselves from learning the weaknesses of their opponents and building a variety of useful skills, they skew their observational capacity and perhaps vent weird rants on the board.



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Offline StSanta

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What is wrong with the AH Flight Model?
« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2000, 05:05:00 AM »
Pyro, if you use this objectivity/rational way of thinking one more time...

My Momma's Combat Boots.

Ask mx22 about my sox, then envision those boots.

Everyone knows that all allied opportunist planes are overmodelled, and all but the 190A5 of the LW are really Gotha bombers with a different skin.

Geesh.

And, for your information, that guy should have gotten a red card and we should have gotten a penalty. We'd won the whole world cup if it hadn't been for that.

 

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Offline SC-GreyBeard

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What is wrong with the AH Flight Model?
« Reply #12 on: August 22, 2000, 05:18:00 PM »
Now Pyro,,

you know damn well that my planes are never overmodeled..
I'd luv to find the coding that states
"if $1=SCGreyB
then ACM=-20%
Else ACM=+50%"

It's all yer fault ya know...

 



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funked

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What is wrong with the AH Flight Model?
« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2000, 11:51:00 AM »
Well said Pyro.



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Goldie, how many times have I told you guys that I don't want no horsing around on the airplane... Now let's get this thing on the hump -- we got some flyin' to do!

Nuku

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What is wrong with the AH Flight Model?
« Reply #14 on: August 23, 2000, 08:25:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Pyro:
There's always going to be complaints, some valid many not.  
[snip]
Probably the biggest factor in this is psychological.  Bias and expectation have a big influence on how people perceive things.
[snip]
[end quote]

Ach. Improve the flight recorder.  I'll stop squeaking about uber P47s after I can clearly see how my P38 got outturned by one.  Give me a stable "floating eye" camera, and give me the ability to see enemy airspeed and altitude (i.e. energy state).  Then I'll figure out if that was a P47 stallfighting with me, or if he was moving at 400mph and  pulling 7Gs.

Show me the enemy's hit sparks on my plane so I can see how that Buff's 2 .50s tore apart my plane so quickly (did he hit all in one place or all over like my 6-guns were doing to him?)