Unofficial Trainers - Read This Please

[blkmgc]

Geez, wheres the bomber lovin? 

Need to help the next generation along.

Call Sign:blkmgc
BBS Handle:same
General Location/Times Available:EST primetime
Email:
Preferred Contact Method:Register at our forums and post questions in the general area (link in sig), or PM me here.

And then with some more specific information:

Online Flight Sim Experience:10+ years
Preferred Aircraft:Medium and Heavy bombers
General Style: Hight alt heavy, or medium and low alt light bombers
Can Teach Topics: Formation flight, bombing precision, defensive and evasive tactics, gunnery ,comms ect
Teaching Method: MA mainly, or one on one if needed in the TA. Can provide a group to train for formations
Can Teach Skill Level(s): Beginner to Expert

[Widewing]

I deliberately set up 3v1 duels for the sole purpose of improving SA of MA regulars. We have these in the TA, with very specific rules for what constitutes a death (any hit to cockpit glass). I usually take 75% fuel as I may fly 5 or 6 of these consecutively. When I finally run low on gas, I usually have ammo remaining. Every pilot gets a shot at being the lone ranger, but I always go first to give the three an opportunity to work as a team, while I try to demonstrate how to assess threats and eliminate them in order.

3v1 requires top notch SA. It requires very good E management skills. It requires death laser gun accuracy. You cannot afford to miss any shots.

Some players show marked improvement over the course of the evening, while others become hopelessly disoriented.

Generally, a superior dueler will be successful in the MA if he recognizes that one must expand his SA to a far large volume of air space. 3v1 duels help them adjust to that.

My regards,

Widewing

[Steve]

I deliberately set up 3v1 duels for the sole purpose of improving SA of MA regulars. We have these in the TA, with very specific rules for what constitutes a death (any hit to cockpit glass). I usually take 75% fuel as I may fly 5 or 6 of these consecutively. When I finally run low on gas, I usually have ammo remaining. Every pilot gets a shot at being the lone ranger, but I always go first to give the three an opportunity to work as a team, while I try to demonstrate how to assess threats and eliminate them in order.

3v1 requires top notch SA. It requires very good E management skills. It requires death laser gun accuracy. You cannot afford to miss any shots.

Some players show marked improvement over the course of the evening, while others become hopelessly disoriented.

Generally, a superior dueler will be successful in the MA if he recognizes that one must expand his SA to a far large volume of air space. 3v1 duels help them adjust to that.

My regards,

Widewing

Sounds like a great training tool. IMHO

[mtnman]

I must confess-  I'm one of those that believes in releasing stick pressure when I shoot.  Due to that, rather than flying a true arc as I fire in a turn, my flight path would probably look more like I was flying the outer edge of a stop-sign.  I'll fly the arch while in pursuit, and then as I prepare to fire I pull a bit of extra lead, let off on the stick, and fire where I think his cockpit will be when my rounds get there.  Right after I fire, I assess whether my guess was correct or not, and then repeat with any needed modifications to my aim-point.

I believe I read somewhere eons ago that "unloading" G's was preferable to firing while pulling G's.  I tried it, and swear by it now.  Although it sounds like the "stop-sign" flightpath is goofy, in reality it generally only takes one or two short bursts to finish the fight.  Part of that may be because I get close and fire at convergence...  Probably a good practice, but I actually do it because if I don't, I'll miss, hehe!  I've found I can hit big, close targets easier than long range itty-bitty ones.

Due to my shooting style, I've found that firing and missing will cost me time and angles, just as Bighorn mentions.  So, I just don't fire until I think I surely can't miss.

Also (I believe) due to my unloading G's and firing a short burst, I find it the norm that my rounds will all land in a tight group on my target.  For example, if I hit the cockpit, the cockpit will be covered with sprites, but that's about it- very few sprites show up anywhere else.

My shooting style changes not a bit in the DA.  But, I don't do so hot in the DA either.  Part (most) of that is because I have a bad attitude regarding the DA.  I have it in my head that the DA is boring, so I'm bored with fighting/dueling there.  I'm normally bored in the DA by the time I get my gear up, and I find my fights lack "spunk" as a result.  I really just don't care if I win or not, and for me anyway, I have to care or I won't do well.  It's my fault entirely- it's all in my head, but...  

For me to get exited about fighting, I need the wild randomness of the MA environment.  That's a weakness of mine, I know I'd benefit from some DA time.  I just can't bring myself to log in there and take it seriously.

MtnMan

  

[Murdr]

It's pretty common for 1v1s between good stick these days to degrade into a rolling scissors type fight.  Under those conditions, blowing a shot usually means leaving yourself open for a shot in the next series.  That is because you often had to change your pursuit angle to gain the shot, and it naturally creates a fligh path overshoot that your opponent might convert into a wingline overshoot.  (ie. I see exactly what Bighorn is saying in that regard)

[Zazen13]

It's pretty common for 1v1s between good stick these days to degrade into a rolling scissors type fight.  Under those conditions, blowing a shot usually means leaving yourself open for a shot in the next series.  That is because you often had to change your pursuit angle to gain the shot, and it naturally creates a fligh path overshoot that your opponent might convert into a wingline overshoot.  (ie. I see exactly what Bighorn is saying in that regard)

So, you're saying switching from lag pursuit to lead opens the door for him to beat you around the next corner. I'm in that scissoring situation all the time, as my favorite ride rolls like a honey coated fat lady uphill, everyone wants to scissor me. I can see that happening and it does now and then, but I don't think it's as cut and dry as, "If I miss this one shot I'm definitely dead...". At least I've never seen that, you can still "catchup" if you are prepared to be quick on the reverse if you miss.

[Zazen13]

I must confess-  I'm one of those that believes in releasing stick pressure when I shoot.  Due to that, rather than flying a true arc as I fire in a turn, my flight path would probably look more like I was flying the outer edge of a stop-sign.  I'll fly the arch while in pursuit, and then as I prepare to fire I pull a bit of extra lead, let off on the stick, and fire where I think his cockpit will be when my rounds get there.  Right after I fire, I assess whether my guess was correct or not, and then repeat with any needed modifications to my aim-point.

I believe I read somewhere eons ago that "unloading" G's was preferable to firing while pulling G's.  I tried it, and swear by it now.  Although it sounds like the "stop-sign" flightpath is goofy, in reality it generally only takes one or two short bursts to finish the fight.  Part of that may be because I get close and fire at convergence...  Probably a good practice, but I actually do it because if I don't, I'll miss, hehe!  I've found I can hit big, close targets easier than long range itty-bitty ones.

Due to my shooting style, I've found that firing and missing will cost me time and angles, just as Bighorn mentions.  So, I just don't fire until I think I surely can't miss.

Also (I believe) due to my unloading G's and firing a short burst, I find it the norm that my rounds will all land in a tight group on my target.  For example, if I hit the cockpit, the cockpit will be covered with sprites, but that's about it- very few sprites show up anywhere else.

My shooting style changes not a bit in the DA.  But, I don't do so hot in the DA either.  Part (most) of that is because I have a bad attitude regarding the DA.  I have it in my head that the DA is boring, so I'm bored with fighting/dueling there.  I'm normally bored in the DA by the time I get my gear up, and I find my fights lack "spunk" as a result.  I really just don't care if I win or not, and for me anyway, I have to care or I won't do well.  It's my fault entirely- it's all in my head, but...  

For me to get exited about fighting, I need the wild randomness of the MA environment.  That's a weakness of mine, I know I'd benefit from some DA time.  I just can't bring myself to log in there and take it seriously.

MtnMan

  

Interesting, if anything I tend to use lag pursuit and pull a bit heavier on the shot so if he's looking in his rear view he thinks he's safe until it's too late...The only time I like lead pursuit is if I'm trying to work off his E advantage, so I pull a lead angle he has to at least match, preferably beat or give me a shot. This means I either get a shot or he has to blow E to pull more G's or change the vector of his turn to "catchup" or change the angle to out-of-plane which is only a temporary cure.

[goober69]

I deliberately set up 3v1 duels for the sole purpose of improving SA of MA regulars. We have these in the TA, with very specific rules for what constitutes a death (any hit to cockpit glass). I usually take 75% fuel as I may fly 5 or 6 of these consecutively. When I finally run low on gas, I usually have ammo remaining. Every pilot gets a shot at being the lone ranger, but I always go first to give the three an opportunity to work as a team, while I try to demonstrate how to assess threats and eliminate them in order.

3v1 requires top notch SA. It requires very good E management skills. It requires death laser gun accuracy. You cannot afford to miss any shots.

Some players show marked improvement over the course of the evening, while others become hopelessly disoriented.

Generally, a superior dueler will be successful in the MA if he recognizes that one must expand his SA to a far large volume of air space. 3v1 duels help them adjust to that.

My regards,

Widewing

wow i could use about 3 months of those

[Zazen13]

wow i could use about 3 months of those

Yea, sounds like fun! 

[Vudak]

So, you're saying switching from lag pursuit to lead opens the door for him to beat you around the next corner. I'm in that scissoring situation all the time, as my favorite ride rolls like a honey coated fat lady uphill, everyone wants to scissor me. I can see that happening and it does now and then, but I don't think it's as cut and dry as, "If I miss this one shot I'm definitely dead...". At least I've never seen that, you can still "catchup" if you are prepared to be quick on the reverse if you miss.

Well, it's very rare that anything is "cut and dry" in life, so chalk that up to my exaggerating...

Anyway, it's the same concept as a simple barrel roll guns defense...  If he goes for the shot and misses, he's in trouble.  Sure, it might be possible to play "catch up," but catching up takes much more work (and often luck) than keeping yourself out of that situation in the first place.  If you're dueling someone much better than you, catching up is a huge hill to climb.

Basically, the angle required for a shot is often different from the angle required to keep yourself in a good position to counter your opponent's next move, should you miss the shot.

I am wondering if part of the reason for our different takes on this has much to do with your being a much better shot than me.  What I see as a low % "If I miss, I'm in deep trouble" shot, you probably see as an "I'm not going to miss, fight's over" situation

I'm shooting 5-6%...  Out of all my weaknesses, it's probably my biggest.

[BaldEagl]

I deliberately set up 3v1 duels for the sole purpose of improving SA of MA regulars.

Hey, I'd like to try that sometime.

[Zazen13]

Well, it's very rare that anything is "cut and dry" in life, so chalk that up to my exaggerating...

I am wondering if part of the reason for our different takes on this has much to do with your being a much better shot than me.  What I see as a low % "If I miss, I'm in deep trouble" shot, you probably see as an "I'm not going to miss, fight's over" situation

I'm shooting 5-6%...  Out of all my weaknesses, it's probably my biggest.

Yea, I was not understanding what bighorn was doing when he kept correlating missing to instant death...He doesn't know what the maneuvers are called or how to describe them, so we were both getting frustrated. I hope Murdr nailed it, because I can visualize that and can sort of see what he means now.

Yea, I'll be honest, I fly only nose-low deflection view rich planes to make the most of my aim. To not do so feels kind of like Samantha in "Bewitched" not using her nose wiggling magic, it's the silly squandering of a gift. I would fly a steaming, maggot riddled turd with wings if it had a great nose-low deflection view and a decent gun. As a result of that plane/pilot dynamic I rarely miss any shot unless I'm plinking away a few rounds at a time toward a butter churning stirrer in a small plane. I'll sometimes just get a glancing blow, but even at atrocious angles for a fleeting millisecond I'm usually golden. I'm always taking crazy shots just to see if I can add them to my mental aiming computer's repetoire. I even spent a few months practicing killing at high deflection while inverted, that was a real mind-twister.

Ironically, that actually tends to bite me in the arse because I will assume I'm going to immediately kill plane X so already start thinking about plane Y I want to kill next, but then plane X does something completely unexpected, it's usually newer players who are incredibly hard to predict because they don't do the most logical thing like a veteran would. Now I've pulled my pants down for plane Y AND plane X is still on the loose. Had I humbly anticipated the possibility of not destroying plane X perfunctorily I would still have separation from plane Y or may have elected to switch targets the second I went no-joy on plane X before over-comitting to him and compromising my position. It just never occurs to me that I may miss a shot.

But, yea it's hard for me to relate my experiences because of my unusual aim the same way I sometimes fail to understand a complex series of maneuvers I've never or rarely had to perform as they are related to me by someone who is a vastly superior flyer to me. I've never been a great flyer, but I've never really had to be either to be very efficient at killing. I guess if I had to pick being good at one or the other I would rather be good at gunnery. Gunnery is purely offensive in nature, flying is actually primarily defensive in nature. I'd rather be better at shooting people down than maneuvering to avoid being shot down. Which has always been what's happened my entire air combat sim career.

[Widewing]

wow i could use about 3 months of those

Well, I'm going to schedule the next 3v1 event for middle August. I'll post it here about a week prior. We try to get a solid mix of vets and newer players, with a few ringers thrown in. Murdr, Rolex, TC, Hammer and Ghosth have all participated. We also invite whole squads. Saxman has brought his gang in at least twice. We will have some good pilots in the next one, TonyJoey wants to participate and we can count on several other MA vets.

It's a great chance to fight off a mob without consequence or status being at stake. 3v1 fights are tough to win, but the insight gained is very useful in the various arenas.

We finish the event by dividing the pilots into two groups for a big furball.

Rules are simple. Fly any non-perked fighter. Any hit to the cockpit glass is considered a kill shot. If you are part of the 3, any such hit requires that you turn on air show smoke (indicating that you are out of the fight) and disengage. You must fly out beyond icon range, whereupon you turn off the smoke and return to the fight. This provides visual reward for kills and allows the lone pilot to progress through the enemy, if he can. This event depends on the honor system, and with very rare exception, no one fudges or blatantly cheats. Augers will occur, but you may immediately re-up and rejoin the fight.

We've had as many as 30 participants in the past, meaning there were at least 7 groups fighting at any time. After about 15 minutes (when ammo is running low), we rotate one pilot from each group to another and take off again for another round. In the course of two hours, everyone will have had an opportunity to fight each pilot either as part of the 3 pilot team, or as the "lone ranger". Everyone should run film.

So, watch this forum for the event notice.

My regards,

Widewing

[Zazen13]

Sign me up WideWing, sounds fun.

[PFactorDave]

I believe I read somewhere eons ago that "unloading" G's was preferable to firing while pulling G's.  I tried it, and swear by it now.  Although it sounds like the "stop-sign" flightpath is goofy, in reality it generally only takes one or two short bursts to finish the fight.  Part of that may be because I get close and fire at convergence...  Probably a good practice, but I actually do it because if I don't, I'll miss, hehe!  I've found I can hit big, close targets easier than long range itty-bitty ones.

Honestly, I believe that unloading before shooting was done to lessen the risk of the guns jamming due to the flexing of the ammunition pathing during high G loads.

I, of course, could be wrong.  But if I'm not, then unloading isn't really important in AH2, since gun jams aren't modeled.  That said, I expect that you have taught yourself to get a better angle and consequently you get a longer burst on target.

The effect of unloading may improve your gunnery, but perhaps not for the reasons you may think.