Author Topic: knights  (Read 3569 times)

Offline bmwgs

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 808
Re: knights
« Reply #60 on: July 24, 2008, 12:47:10 AM »
bahh loyalty...should be forced to fly with lowest number side upon logon.  :aok

You call it loyalty, I call it too lazy to change.     :D

Fred
One of the serious problems in planning the fight against American doctrine, is that the Americans do not read their manuals, nor do they feel any obligation to follow their doctrine... - From a Soviet Junior Lt's Notebook

Offline Zazen13

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3600
Re: knights
« Reply #61 on: July 24, 2008, 01:47:58 AM »
Zazen you write very well. I wish I had such a talent. I just can't accept your characterization of the different "types" of people that comprise each of the 3 countries.

From your well written post you would have me believe that the people in each "country" have different values and ways of doing things maybe even different thought values.  That perhaps the citizens of these countries have different cultures and that explains why they all behave differently.

I would rather think that all three countries behave exactly the same way.  Maybe it depends who is observing the behavior and makes note of it at the time.

As I said my writting on BBS's is horrible so I hope at least you can decipher what I typed. :)

Or maybe I'm just flat wrong and all Rooks really are alt monkeys.   ;)

Thank-You kindly for the compliment. I truly enjoy writing, especially about things I enjoy or believe in. Keep in mind that, although I may sound like I am trying to persuade you to my point-of-view, really what I want to do is encourage intelligent debate especially if the topic is contentious. As I told Corky yesterday in the MA, "Whether a debate has a definitive conclusion or not it always serves to promote mutual understanding". Even if you cannot be persuaded to adopt another stance you will at the very least glean insights into the other's perspective and in doing so develop respect and recognition of the potential validity of a point-of-view other than your own. Believe it or not this is a huge step in basic human relations, try to apply this same concept to group dynamics and understanding and it's a monumental undertaking.

I've always been a powerful observer. I spend a lot of time watching squadrons and the roster, filming people, watching the strategic map, watching how people go about attacking fields tactically and listening to communications. I will  often compile statistics and try to amalgamate that data rationally with my personal observations into a trend or propensity that cannot simply be the result of random distribution. I am fascinated by the human dynamic of this genre, I even wrote a behavioral psychology paper on it when I was in college. So when I tell you the three countries retain and attract a core of players that have different goals and ideas of fun, I am not just saying that on a whim or from some isolated ivory tower of limited perspective.

Let's start with a little recent history, some readers were here for it, some weren't...

Several years ago Bishops were by far the most populated country. During most times during most days Bishops outnumbers Rooks 3:1 and Knights 2:1. They milk-horded everything, this went on unchecked, there were no ENY modifiers or any such contrivance back then, just the perks we have today. After 18 months of this Rooks decided they were going to prove a point. We created RJO and on one night through a network of Squadron CO's we got virtually every Rook on line, we had mission assignments by individual squadrons, and an overall CO.

Needless to say we totally creamed the Bishops who were quite unaccustomed to getting cakewalked. Immediately the Bishops pissing and moaning went up on the forums, little mention made of the fact Bishops have done this virtually everynight without having to even really organize it just by virtue of sheer numbers. Well, you may be able to guess the rest. RJO persisted in diluted form one Sunday a month for awhile until the deafening roar of whines on the BBS ultimately caused HTC to implement the ENY modifier we all love and enjoy today. Keep in mind while this was happening Bishops still retained much of their numerical superiority on every other night of the week, just not Sundays anymore as almost every Rook squadron changed their weekly squadnights to Sunday.

After some time things stabilized but the ENY modifier never really made people change countries that much all it did was make people LoGoff or suffer in a plane they would not normally choose to fly. Bish continued to be ultra-real estate junkies, Rooks continued to be die hard scrappers as the trial of fire of 18 months of being banged taught them how to be. Knights accrued those disenfranchised by the other two to add to the loyal core of squadrons transplanted from WB's and AW. Ever since the immediate fall-out of RJO and the ENY debacle the die was cast, the core of players and their approaches were affiliated with a certain country.

I am by no means saying every Bish is a X type player and every Rook is Y type player. That would be a gross oversimplification. What I am saying is it is really quite obvious sociologically that people with common goals tend to coalesce. The more time that passes the more true this becomes. AH is an air combat game with a social aspect, it is adversarialism in a rather pure form. So, with conflict and social bonds you can assume, just like in any other "closed" environment, group dynamics form which influences those associated within the group and any group or individual it interacts with.

I balk at using this example, but I can't think of a more appropriate one...

In prison, inmates of various races are initially randomly assigned to various areas and cells. Without conflict and socializing/communication that would probably stay the status quo. But once you collect individuals with different goals together, infuse the situation with conflict and provide a medium for discourse (socialization) random allocation no longer exists. An adversarial environment  within the randomly allocated group with diverse goals causes those of the same races to break away from pack and band together as they presumably have similar goals for mutual protection, security and how to conduct business.

So, in AH there really is unique group dynamics associated with each country born by adversarliasm expressed through conflict and communicated socially. If WWII has taught us anything it is that group thinking is very effective at overwhelming a single individual's inhibitions. So, the group thinking core of each country exudes influence upon individuals or smaller groups within its domain. A lot like harmonic resonance theory those individuals will be drawn to the group dynamic if it resonates strongly with their own goals and ideas. The reverse is also true, those that have opposite goals and ideas will tend to be repelled and seek to join with others more closely attuned. The longer the group dynamic process continues the more strongly it resonates and attracts the like-minded while repulsing those not congruent, in this community it has been going on for 20 Years.

I have done my part to explain why, "Birds of a feather flock together". Some have said they do not believe this, that perhaps AH is an anomaly in the Universe whereby elements intrinsically bound by the fundamental forces of attraction do not seek to naturally congregate whereever possible to form a whole, but instead randomly distribute themselves homogeneously never to be drawn together again. Given the microcosmic to the macrocosmic truths and laws that bind all things in the universe I find it extremely hard to be persuaded the laws of the universe, perfect in every way from creation to now, failed in just this one regard. That somehow human souls and minds are not an abstract microcosmic representation of the macrocosmic universe, that like minds do not tend to associate and collaborate. Instead the 5,000+? AH'ers just randomly and arbitrarily associate with one country or another, no conscious decision making, just eenie, meanie, minie, moe?

Find me proof of that and I will explore that point-of-view more thoroughly with you.

Until then I am standing by empirical evidence that Bishops tend to milk-horde fields with "war winning" as their primary goal, Rooks tend to furball as air combat is their primary goal and Knights tend to apply themselves flexibly to maximally retrain the other two by reacting dynamically.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2008, 01:57:06 AM by Zazen13 »
Zazen PhD of Cherrypickology
Author of, "The Zen Art of Cherrypicking" and other related works.
Quote, "Cherrypicking is a state of mind & being, not only Art and Scienc

Offline Bruv119

  • Aces High CM Staff
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 15678
      • http://www.thefewsquadron.co.uk
Re: knights
« Reply #62 on: July 24, 2008, 02:27:17 AM »
Until then I am standing by empirical evidence that Bishops tend to milk-horde fields with "war winning" as their primary goal, Rooks tend to furball as air combat is their primary goal and Knights tend to apply themselves flexibly to maximally retrain the other two by reacting dynamically.

Great post Zazen  :aok.   

Now you have to take into account that at certain times of the day all teams do a little bit of hording and mass attack.  When a player is defending in these scenarios it stands out in their memory and somewhere deep inside this gets remembered and hate grows.  When certain player participates in such a capture it is  all around WTG's! and good teamwork this gets forgotten.

It is the die hard, country loyal players  (usually squad CO's) that set these cultural trends and other newer players follow these ideals.

Naming them wouldnt be hard but you can stereotype certain areas of gameplay being "their own".  There are no right or wrong ways of playing the game but then you get people objecting to certain styles and as Zazen points out with his Prison example.  Posses grow, hate grows.   Then there are the guys who play above this level and switch sides to balance the teams,  find the fight, anti-horde, spy  :t, These are usually furballers looking for some action and they are entitled to do that.   The more you swap the more you realise that each country does get up to all kinds of different shanningans.   The bottom line is we all play to have FUN!  If your not having any you need to either jog on or change your priorities.





 
The Few ***
F.P.H

Offline bmwgs

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 808
Re: knights
« Reply #63 on: July 24, 2008, 03:00:13 AM »
Zazen 13, I don't have your gift for writing, so forgive me, I am just a simple guy from simple times.

I don't know what went on 3 year ago, since I have only been with Aces High for about a year.  In that year I have logged on nearly everyday.  I watch the banter on 200 and read the forums daily.  You make some valid points, but in the end I am not sure it still is not eenie - meanie - minie moe.

I wonder how many are like me who was arbitrarily assigned to Bishops when I signed up and saw no reason to change.  I don't know if stats are kept showing this, but I would be curious what they would be if they are available.

Being a member of one of the biggest real estate taking squads in Aces High, you might be surprised that I really could care less about base taking.  My CO, who I think is a great guy, likes doing that kind of thing, and since I am in the squad, I do join in on some missions, but many times I off on my own defending a base, or generally getting my arse kicked.

I keep hearing this talk about how the Bishop don't like to fight without the horde, but everyday I see Bishops fighting to defend bases being vastly out numbered by the enemy.  I see Bishops flying or GVing to bases in ones and twos where the eny dar is across the sector.  They may be going to pork, or maybe they are just going to get into a fight.  I never really thought to ask them.

I still think that every country has players that like to take real estate, furball, GV, among other things.  I think the Bishops have the reputation of real estate grabbing because we do have several players that like leading missions that accomplish that task, and they have become pretty good at it.  I will agree from a post someone made earlier, that on many of these missions as soon as the bases flashes, the eny comes out in a swarm.  Sometimes the bases are taken without resistance, but being at the other end of this, I have seen both the other countries take bases with no or little resistance.

I have not kept any statical evidence, nor have I tried to figure out why some do what they do.  Heck I don't even remember who last killed me yesterday, or who I killed.  Maybe I just like having fun, and don't worry about the rest of it.  I think many share my opinion, but then again I have no evidence to back it up.

I had to look up the definition of empirical.   :)  I thought I knew what it meant, but wasn't sure, so I just have to leave it like this.  I stand by empirical evidence that there is little difference between the three countries.  Of course I state this with due respect to your opinion.

Fred
One of the serious problems in planning the fight against American doctrine, is that the Americans do not read their manuals, nor do they feel any obligation to follow their doctrine... - From a Soviet Junior Lt's Notebook

Offline RTHolmes

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8260
Re: knights
« Reply #64 on: July 24, 2008, 04:02:08 AM »
got to agree with the OP, havent seen a mission posted on nits for weeks apart from the odd noob miss (quick glance at fuel loadouts is a dead giveaway, my fav recently was a 1 sector "base take" with 4x mossies, small ammo, no ords and 100% fuel. with a goon :confused: )

btw nits had fun defending 152 for so long yesterday (my GV rank went from ~600 to ~60 :D)
71 (Eagle) Squadron

What most of us want to do is simply shoot stuff and look good doing it - Chilli

Offline Bruv119

  • Aces High CM Staff
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 15678
      • http://www.thefewsquadron.co.uk
Re: knights
« Reply #65 on: July 24, 2008, 04:13:17 AM »
did well to hold onto 152 for about 5 hours  :D

after a couple of frustrating runs. many 190's  high, running , not engaging etc etc.  For such a huge dar was surprising to see the fight not coming to our field.  was alot of fence sitting going on. 

  Seeing as nits were hellbent on defending 152, okllok did well and took 2 fields behind enemy lines.  He did well at distracting some enemy.  We proceeded to capture the entire island north.

Again a very nice map to fight over.  hopefully it will be left up for the next 6 months until we are sick and tired of seeing it.

The Few ***
F.P.H

Offline Zazen13

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3600
Re: knights
« Reply #66 on: July 24, 2008, 08:10:09 AM »
Zazen 13, I don't have your gift for writing, so forgive me, I am just a simple guy from simple times.

I don't know what went on 3 year ago, since I have only been with Aces High for about a year.  In that year I have logged on nearly everyday.  I watch the banter on 200 and read the forums daily.  You make some valid points, but in the end I am not sure it still is not eenie - meanie - minie moe.

I wonder how many are like me who was arbitrarily assigned to Bishops when I signed up and saw no reason to change.  I don't know if stats are kept showing this, but I would be curious what they would be if they are available.

Being a member of one of the biggest real estate taking squads in Aces High, you might be surprised that I really could care less about base taking.  My CO, who I think is a great guy, likes doing that kind of thing, and since I am in the squad, I do join in on some missions, but many times I off on my own defending a base, or generally getting my arse kicked.

I keep hearing this talk about how the Bishop don't like to fight without the horde, but everyday I see Bishops fighting to defend bases being vastly out numbered by the enemy.  I see Bishops flying or GVing to bases in ones and twos where the eny dar is across the sector.  They may be going to pork, or maybe they are just going to get into a fight.  I never really thought to ask them.

I still think that every country has players that like to take real estate, furball, GV, among other things.  I think the Bishops have the reputation of real estate grabbing because we do have several players that like leading missions that accomplish that task, and they have become pretty good at it.  I will agree from a post someone made earlier, that on many of these missions as soon as the bases flashes, the eny comes out in a swarm.  Sometimes the bases are taken without resistance, but being at the other end of this, I have seen both the other countries take bases with no or little resistance.

I have not kept any statical evidence, nor have I tried to figure out why some do what they do.  Heck I don't even remember who last killed me yesterday, or who I killed.  Maybe I just like having fun, and don't worry about the rest of it.  I think many share my opinion, but then again I have no evidence to back it up.

I had to look up the definition of empirical.   :)  I thought I knew what it meant, but wasn't sure, so I just have to leave it like this.  I stand by empirical evidence that there is little difference between the three countries.  Of course I state this with due respect to your opinion.

Fred

Actually, whether you realise it or not your personal experience related here proves my point. The fact that you have always been Bishop and never changed means that your perspective is not objective but subjective. I encourage you, if you are truly interested in exploring what we're talking about, to switch to Rooks or Knights for a week or two as an experiment. Take notice of how that perspective changes what you assumed to be true from the other vantage, especially of Bishops of whom your views are subjective. I think you will be amazed.

The large squadrons that you speak of that are led by a single minded CO's create country cohesiveness forming a group dynamic that is rather compelling and persuasive. It is human nature to  want to be a part of something bigger than yourself. It's this universal aspiration to transcend the bonds and limitations of isolated individual potential that makes groups a powerful coercive force. You are personally ambivalent toward base capture yet you choose to participate in it to be considered part of the group.

I am by no means saying Bishops ONLY milk-horde, or Rooks ONLY furball. What we are speaking of here is the predominance of behavior, predominant to the point where it becomes a defining characteristic. This does not by any means require ubiquitous participation. All it requires is the preference, as a whole, for a group to behave in a certain predictable way that is unique in terms of frequency and differentiates it from the general behavior of other groups in congruous situations...I have always conceded that all teams do everything at one time or another, Rooks sometimes milk-horde, Bishops sometimes furball. What makes them unique and defines them is the propensity they respectively have to do those activities in a disproportionate way relative to other activities and each other.
Zazen PhD of Cherrypickology
Author of, "The Zen Art of Cherrypicking" and other related works.
Quote, "Cherrypicking is a state of mind & being, not only Art and Scienc

Offline WMLute

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4512
Re: knights
« Reply #67 on: July 24, 2008, 08:11:18 AM »
Ran a mission the other day for Knights.

I was asked upon take off it was NOE.

"Naw" I said, "let 'em see us coming.  It's more fun if they put up a fight".

Found myself saying that a lot recently, and it didn't used to be like that.  It USED to be you would run the mission smack into that large nme dar bar and fight it out for the base.  I love a base capture that takes 2nd, 3rd, or even 4th efforts (5th, 6th, etc).  I remember taking bases out of sheer determination alone.

I also miss the pure fighter sweeps that used to be much more common.  I need to try and post more of those.  Get 20 players in the same plane and run 'em right at the largest nme dar bar you can find.

As far as Knits are concerned, it really "depends" on who's on.  In the past few weeks i've seen the Knits do incredibly well, and then the next day can't even get more than 2-3 to help me defend a field.

Having visited all the variouis countries recently, I agree that they are mostly the "same" but I ALSO agree with Zazens assesment.  If you like large missions to capture real-estate, fly Bish.  If you are wanting dogfights, go Rook.

Knits are somewhat of a mixed bag, and tend to be "reacting" to what the other two countries are doing more times than not.

Granted, there are exceptions to any rule, and there are times where all three a pretty much the "same" as far as game pley goes.

Great players on all countries.  (and of course, many not so good...)
"Never tell people how to do things. Tell them what to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity."
— George Patton

Absurdum est ut alios regat, qui seipsum regere nescit

Offline Hap

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3908
Re: knights
« Reply #68 on: July 24, 2008, 08:15:49 AM »
"Naw" I said, "let 'em see us coming.  It's more fun if they put up a fight".

Found myself saying that a lot recently, and it didn't used to be like that.  It USED to be you would run the mission smack into that large nme dar bar and fight it out for the base. 

During my 1st year in AH, Fairz and Rockstar would run missions frequently for the Bishops.  This is a long time ago, so I maybe remembering incorrectly.  But I don't recall numerous NOE missions as we do have today.

No doubt they did occur.  I'm probably past recalling accurately.

But those missions were fun.


Offline Zazen13

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3600
Re: knights
« Reply #69 on: July 24, 2008, 02:27:39 PM »

Found myself saying that a lot recently, and it didn't used to be like that.  It USED to be you would run the mission smack into that large nme dar bar and fight it out for the base.  I love a base capture that takes 2nd, 3rd, or even 4th efforts (5th, 6th, etc).  I remember taking bases out of sheer determination alone.



I do not want to turn this into a map rant, but I would like to point out something here. Until the advent of HUGE maps and subsequently split LW arenas it was imperative to defend every base to the last or you would quickly find yourself circling the wagons at your HQ field. This is no longer true, especially on the HUGE maps. More often than not there are more fields than there are players in the arena, which I personally find completely ridiculous.

It boils down to a simple matter of mathematics and population density...Your average HUGE map has 200+ fields, your average small map has 40. If you populate both maps equally with 200 people, which tends to be about the average in the most populous of the two arenas over a 24 hour period, you get vastly different ratios of players to fields. Do not underestimate the impact this has on gameplay. There is a gigantic difference between a 1 to 1 ratio of players to fields and a 5 to 1 ratio.

The big reason horde-milking has become the staple of geographic domination is a direct result of these key ratios. Each base on a map with 40 fields is 5 times as important as a base on a map with 200 fields, therefore it logically deserves 5 times the attention and care from its owner and rightfully so. Conversely, because bases on large maps are individually almost insignificant a team bent on geographic domination must take a large number of them in rapid succession in order to have any real strategic impact on the enemy's position in terms of a reset. This is the basic recipe and reason for the predominance of milk-hording today.

On small maps the reverse is true from the perspective of defense. Losing just 5 fields on a small map could effectively cripple a country's position in terms of reset conditions and potentially put it's HQ at risk. So, it is critical to defend and hold each and every field with the utmost ferocity. Likewise, on a small map, the aggressors do not have "paths of least resistance" to fall back on if an attack on one field fails, therefore they must continue to press the attack with equal tenacity.

In my personal opinion, HUGE maps, followed by split LW arenas, in lowering population density, are largely to blame for the game's recession from its focus on actual air combat in the last few years.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2008, 02:51:05 PM by Zazen13 »
Zazen PhD of Cherrypickology
Author of, "The Zen Art of Cherrypicking" and other related works.
Quote, "Cherrypicking is a state of mind & being, not only Art and Scienc

Offline bongaroo

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1822
Re: knights
« Reply #70 on: July 24, 2008, 04:05:05 PM »
spend a month on each chess piece and you'll see they are all the same in the end.  Some toolshedders, some furballers, and some noobs.
Callsign: Bongaroo
Formerly: 420ace


Offline FALCONWING

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 943
Re: knights
« Reply #71 on: July 24, 2008, 04:35:41 PM »
Actually, whether you realise it or not your personal experience related here proves my point. The fact that you have always been Bishop and never changed means that your perspective is not objective but subjective. I encourage you, if you are truly interested in exploring what we're talking about, to switch to Rooks or Knights for a week or two as an experiment. Take notice of how that perspective changes what you assumed to be true from the other vantage, especially of Bishops of whom your views are subjective. I think you will be amazed.

The large squadrons that you speak of that are led by a single minded CO's create country cohesiveness forming a group dynamic that is rather compelling and persuasive. It is human nature to  want to be a part of something bigger than yourself. It's this universal aspiration to transcend the bonds and limitations of isolated individual potential that makes groups a powerful coercive force. You are personally ambivalent toward base capture yet you choose to participate in it to be considered part of the group.

I am by no means saying Bishops ONLY milk-horde, or Rooks ONLY furball. What we are speaking of here is the predominance of behavior, predominant to the point where it becomes a defining characteristic. This does nch by any means require ubiquitous participation. All it requires is the preference, as a whole, for a group to behave in a certain predictable way that is unique in terms of frequency and differentiates it from the general behavior of other groups in congruous situations...I have always conceded that all teams do everything at one time or another, Rooks sometimes milk-horde, Bishops sometimes furball. What makes them unique and defines them is the propensity they respectively have to do those activities in a disproportionate way relative to other activities and each other.

You may have a love of writing, but you need to learn to simplify paragraphs into sentences.  Writing for the sake of writing limits the number of folks who want to wade through the prose to find the "meat" of the posting.  That being said....

You are greatly biased towards rooks.  If you look at your stats you never fly bishop (i went back almost a year and only in 2/08 did you have 5 kills as a bishop).  You dont fly bombers...you dont capture bases...

You and i have known each other "virtually" for a long time.  I rarely see you as anything but a Rook and your posts tend to suggest only Rooks enjoy air combat.  You neglect the fact that Blind BAts and LCA are big "real estate" squads who use NOE frequently. Many other rook squads (hells Angels, A8's, etc) base take as well.  You seem confused by the fact that historically the Rooks HAVE attracted the "score" squads...and mistook that with true "furballing".  I would suspect you consider yourself a furballer but MOST of us would not consider alt/e/picking in a typhoon/tempest/262 as "furballing".  There is nothing wrong with that style....but it is what it is.  In fact please feel free to name for me active ROOK furball squads...I really can't think of any...most true furball squads have no country affiliation anymore...and others just fell apart (which is shocking given that most of the "base taking squads" have survived.

The only human nature I see in action is more on the BBS than in the game.  And that is the mistake of seeing things in only one light...

Your previous post suggests that missions are best suited for newbies who can't accomplish things alone.  Perhaps those who don't join missions are actually the type of personality who requires instant gratification and doesn't like setting advanced goals for fear of failure?  Perhaps they are the sort of people who can't "play with others" or who "needs a persona or attention to feel good about themselves" that isn't afforded by the anonymity of a mission??? That of course would be a generalization...but your posts seem full of them.  I would suggest your point of view is hampered by the fact that you don't care for missions, so you view them in a negative light.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2008, 04:43:33 PM by FALCONWING »
SECRET ANTI-BBS BULLY CLUB

Offline Zazen13

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3600
Re: knights
« Reply #72 on: July 24, 2008, 05:42:59 PM »


You are greatly biased towards rooks.  If you look at your stats you never fly bishop (i went back almost a year and only in 2/08 did you have 5 kills as a bishop).  You dont fly bombers...you dont capture bases...

You're making the erroneous assumption I have only ever used this one account. ;)

Quote
You and i have known each other "virtually" for a long time.  I rarely see you as anything but a Rook and your posts tend to suggest only Rooks enjoy air combat.  You neglect the fact that Blind BAts and LCA are big "real estate" squads who use NOE frequently. Many other rook squads (hells Angels, A8's, etc) base take as well.  You seem confused by the fact that historically the Rooks HAVE attracted the "score" squads...and mistook that with true "furballing".  I would suspect you consider yourself a furballer but MOST of us would not consider alt/e/picking in a typhoon/tempest/262 as "furballing".  There is nothing wrong with that style....but it is what it is.  In fact please feel free to name for me active ROOK furball squads...I really can't think of any...most true furball squads have no country affiliation anymore...and others just fell apart (which is shocking given that most of the "base taking squads" have survived.

A) I've said several times there's people on every team who do other things besides the activities that defines team generally, they are just the minority.

B) I never, ever fly a 262. And, I don't want to get too personal here, but for a guy that exploits the "hyper-modelled" La7 to the maximum possible conceivable extreme, specifically because, as you've freely and publicly admitted,  it's an incredibly easy bird to be successful with in the MA, you really don't have much room to be a style/plane choice critic.
 
C) Your squad and your 'sister' squad have the majority of the 'score dweebs' currently AND are also incidentally the largest perpetrators of milk-hording fields by faaaaar.

D) There's a HUGE difference between a squadron that usually captures bases in the orthodox way of fighting for them periodically on their squadnight and one that orchestrates lengthy milk-hording marathons as a way of life.

E) Your definition of furballing is too rigid, I think you are mistaking the term furball for stallfight. Instead try air combat.

Quote
Your previous post suggests that missions are best suited for newbies who can't accomplish things alone.  Perhaps those who don't join missions are actually the type of personality who requires instant gratification and doesn't like setting advanced goals for fear of failure?  Perhaps they are the sort of people who can't "play with others" or who "needs a persona or attention to feel good about themselves" that isn't afforded by the anonymity of a mission??? That of course would be a generalization...but your posts seem full of them.  I would suggest your point of view is hampered by the fact that you don't care for missions, so you view them in a negative light.

A) Do you seriously believe 50 people head-out to capture a series of undefended fields because they are NOT afraid of failure? Or a single fighter pilot heads into a red cloud of enemy because he IS afraid of failure? Get real...

B) I never said missions are best suited for newbies. I said newbies are attracted to missions because they offer structure, an opportunity to learn from others in relative safety and a far better chance to attain some measure of success than they likely could venturing off alone...

C) I have nothing against missions at all. But, as Lute pointed out there are nowadays pretty much only three types of missions being run which was not always the case...

1) High alt frame rate killing buff spam missions that flatten the entire field, usually to kill a furball that that country was losing.
2) The famous and overused 50 jabo's swarming an undefended field, vulching with 10:1+ odds the few defenders that can react in time or evaporating altogether in order to instead attack another undefended field if stiff resistance manages to manifest prior to capture.
3) The NOE mission where the entire premise is based on attacking an undefended field with overwhelming force in relative secret to minimize the chance of actually having to fight for it at all.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2008, 05:59:15 PM by Zazen13 »
Zazen PhD of Cherrypickology
Author of, "The Zen Art of Cherrypicking" and other related works.
Quote, "Cherrypicking is a state of mind & being, not only Art and Scienc

Offline Zazen13

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3600
Re: knights
« Reply #73 on: July 24, 2008, 06:12:14 PM »
You may have a love of writing, but you need to learn to simplify paragraphs into sentences.  Writing for the sake of writing limits the number of folks who want to wade through the prose to find the "meat" of the posting.  That being said....

.

Ok, you are being kind of obnoxious here, but I'll play along. If I were writing an encyclopedia with the goal of simply disseminating information I would write in a succinct and perfunctory fashion. The purpose of my writing here is to entice from others creative and well-thought out debate by painting pictures, making analogies and illustrating as colorfully as possible my salient ideas. To write about abstract ideas in the same fashion as an encyclopedia entry would be about as entertaining to read as stereo instructions.
Zazen PhD of Cherrypickology
Author of, "The Zen Art of Cherrypicking" and other related works.
Quote, "Cherrypicking is a state of mind & being, not only Art and Scienc

Offline sirvlad

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 410
Re: knights
« Reply #74 on: July 24, 2008, 07:04:41 PM »
To be honest it`s a little much to read and quite lengthy,I`d bet alot of guys have no idea what half those words even mean. I wonder about a few but get the idea  :salute