Aces High bufs are deathtraps

[K-KEN]

AW3 has used gunners only.  Also, AW Classic did too.  You have 2 waist guns, Ball, Chin, Upper, tail, and I think that was all.  An AW pilot can call for gunners, and may fly with one or.... as a "Death Star" fully gunned!
They had a max load of 12 bombs, but could reach a ceiling of 44K.  Of course, hit % drops significantly then, at that alt.  Bombs seem to wander and you couldn't see many structures, until the last moment.  
  But I would like to see multiple gunners as well.  I asked HT that very question in the Beta, and 1 was max.  Maybe we could get 3 as a compromise.  I am sure it has to deal with the FE issue or server FE.....(clueless about the server setup)
K-KEN
 http://www.cutthroats.com/
 

[Swoop]

'scuse my ignorance, but wtf is 'otto'?

Swoop

[Kieren]

"Otto" means "autogunners", such as those on the airfields. Can you imagine what it would be like attacking airfield accurate gunners on bombers? Talk about untouchable!  

[Wraith]

OTTO bomber gunner to pilot: "4 F4C's behind us, 2K, do we bail out?"

Pilot:"Retreat? In our moment of Triumph?"

(hope some of you get it   Hint: Death Star)

Heck, ONE gunner is tough enough on this game, in AW3 the BUFFS needed several gunners because it was easy to fly around a buff and kill it.. AH's FM doesn't allow such fast twists.

DWBomberGroup: Get 4 buffs, one gunner each, box formation, 2 escorts. See if ANYONE can touch you then. You got the members to allow the BUFF formation, you can get anyone from the other squadrons to escort you (Pony Express guys escort good!). You are supposed to be a BOMBER GROUP, not "Group of Guys who fly bombers"...fly as such and you will make it. Remember: The Bomber will always get through  

[bloom25]

I feel kind of silly posting here, but after what happened to me tonight, I think I will.  In the past I've had no trouble defending my bombers from fighters; usually I could kill at least 1 fighter before I was shot down.  Tonight however, geez, I would light up fighters that were attacking me from 1.6k out until around 600 yds.  What happened next you ask?  My plane instantly blows up!  I don't remember this happening in the past.  It used to be that you had a pretty good chance of at least beating off the fighter and escaping with only minor damage.  This happened to me 3 times in a row.  In 2 of the cases the fighter was lit up from about 1.6k all the way until the time I blew up.  Both times I had to have had sustained hits on the fighter for 3+ seconds.  In only 1 case did the fighter go down, but only after I had already blown up.  (My squadmate verified it.)  The problem I saw was that it would be impossible to down a fighter, as I couldn't have possibly hit them any more times.

Don't take this as a whine, it's not, it's just my own experiences with bombers tonight.  Would it be possible, HTC, to at least look into whether something has happened to the bomber .50s or damage modeling?  If you find something, great, and if not, I will accept it no questions asked.
I just find it hard to believe that so many people are complaining (including some of the best bomber pilots) without something being wrong.

Thanks,
bloom25
THUNDERBIRDS

[Fatty]

I am not a good buff pilot.  I'm not even a decent buff pilot.  I might have done a dozen buff sorties total from beta to now.  Tonight I took a B26 up and took 4 fighters with me, 2 of them F4Us.

I don't see a problem with allowing multiple gunners on, but as far as the guns there is no doubt they work, and work pretty well.

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Fatty
FAT DRUNK BASTARDS

[CavemanJ]

 

Originally posted by bloom25:
I feel kind of silly posting here, but after what happened to me tonight, I think I will.  In the past I've had no trouble defending my bombers from fighters; usually I could kill at least 1 fighter before I was shot down.  Tonight however, geez, I would light up fighters that were attacking me from 1.6k out until around 600 yds.  What happened next you ask?  My plane instantly blows up!  I don't remember this happening in the past.  It used to be that you had a pretty good chance of at least beating off the fighter and escaping with only minor damage.  This happened to me 3 times in a row.  In 2 of the cases the fighter was lit up from about 1.6k all the way until the time I blew up.  Both times I had to have had sustained hits on the fighter for 3+ seconds.  In only 1 case did the fighter go down, but only after I had already blown up.  (My squadmate verified it.)  The problem I saw was that it would be impossible to down a fighter, as I couldn't have possibly hit them any more times.

Don't take this as a whine, it's not, it's just my own experiences with bombers tonight.  Would it be possible, HTC, to at least look into whether something has happened to the bomber .50s or damage modeling?  If you find something, great, and if not, I will accept it no questions asked.
I just find it hard to believe that so many people are complaining (including some of the best bomber pilots) without something being wrong.

Thanks,
bloom25
THUNDERBIRDS

That is exactly why I quit flying the heavies and starting perfecting my JABO attacks.

After all the discussion on the .50s I'm of the opinion that the tweaking of the damage models just before the beta ended has given the appearence that the .50s are nerfed.  I first noticed this change in version .45-.46, and it's culminated to its current state.

[gibu]

I don't see what the problem is with otto.  I liked the b17 in WB just fine, and had a lot of fun in them.  This is a game, not a simulation, and as such it's no fun to wait a half an hour just to get your buff up to only 15k then end up killed just as your about to drop eggs because you were in the bombadier station for the last 2 minutes with your head down in the bombsight and never even saw the 109 bearing down on you.

Even if otto is very weak he could at least serve as a look out.  Otto weapons could be automaticly tight below 10k to prevent deathstar tactics.  ( Although I really like anouncing over the radio "That's no moon".

This should be a fun game, and no otto at all hinders the buff pilot.  Especially in the main arena without a squad.  Who wants just gun and sit around for half an hour and possibly not even get any action.  Plus the pilots and gunners never agree about holding steady for good shot on enemy or dogging and bouncing to avoid fire.  I would enlist every otto I could induce into service.  More fun, less hassle.


Gibu

[PapaFox]

Sounds like most players don't want to see otto, but there is a real problem when a buf is attacked from two different directions simultaneously. Allowing more than 1 gunner onboard is the obvious solution.

[Thunder]

There is one thing we not focusing on here ..(ie.I am seeing 3 buffs go down to 1 attacking F4U). The Gameplay issue for Bomber Pilots is not being addressed. Simply, the .50 cals in bombers need to hit harder.

Thunder

[Pongo]

Thunder it wont help you against the 1c..You would have to make it like a 20mm. then no other plane can intercept bombers...


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Pongo
The Wrecking Crew

[Mox]

 

Originally posted by Thunder:
The Gameplay issue for Bomber Pilots is not being addressed. Simply, the .50 cals in bombers need to hit harder.

Thunder

Thunder, you got it exactly right.  Very few people seem to care about the "gameplay issues" of bomber pilots.  

I hope the new patch will bring the much needed strat back to the game.

No doubt about it, AH is a Quakefest now.  IMHO

Mox
The Wrecking Crew

[Toad]

Adding gunners additional gunners may not be a simple task.

I'd like to see HT or Pyro comment on this but I'm betting there are issues we aren't considering. Net Lag between a multiple player crew, for example.

Sometimes things that seem simple...aren't.



[This message has been edited by Toad (edited 04-03-2000).]

[Kieren]

Mox-

Just because people don't agree with your viewpoint doesn't mean they don't care.  

Toad-

Most likely you are right. In theory though it does make more sense than upping the strength of anyone's guns.

[This message has been edited by Kieren (edited 04-03-2000).]

[K-KEN]

 

Originally posted by Thunder:
There is one thing we not focusing on here ..(ie.I am seeing 3 buffs go down to 1 attacking F4U). The Gameplay issue for Bomber Pilots is not being addressed. Simply, the .50 cals in bombers need to hit harder.

Thunder

Well, conversly, consider the pilot skill and accuracy, and the gunners too!  I have taken a NIKI or other fiter, and only been able to get 1 kill(or none).  <hosing is my motto>
However, I get a good run....once in a while, and get multiple kills.  
Good SA, connections, and accuracy play a part in overall gameplay.  Personnaly, I think the buffs are tuff enuff!  But I agree that multiple gunners are needed.  "Otto" auto gunners are "not" the answer.  If "Otto" is enabled off-line, that is different.  Then ewe have some competition.
On-line.....well then, $30.00 a month is too much to pay to get hosed by a server....IMHO.
I like to gun, as much as fly!  I don't care what role I play, as long as I can play!
Isn't that why we are here?    Call for a gunner, and I will jump in in a heartbeat-unless I am in the air already!
K-KEN


 http://www.cutthroats.com/