T Boone Pickens

[bj229r]

Theres no wind during the summer, only stifling humidity

[Hangtime]

Compared to what its traversing, next to nothing.

If you could eliminate the biggest CO2 producer in the world, would you?

The fact that you see the freighter and are oblivious to the ocean shows the power of propaganda.

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Well.. starting with sail vs engines in shipping... ones faster, more reliable, resistant to the vagaries of weather. The other is cheaper. When married up, wind power, supplementing engines, reduces costs. Is it for use 100% of the time? Nope. Does it work? Yup. Lotsa documentation on the web. And, I've sailed most of my life... yer not liable to convince me that wind is a dead end... 

Lastly, building and operating ONE VLCC slaps a heluva lot bigger hit on the carbon footprint than an entire freaking forest of 'windmills'. Run one of them VLCC's onto a sandbar, tell me what the 'footprint' looks like then? VLCC's are built in Korea. 'Windmills' are coming outta GE in Wisconsin. The oil she's carrying was already paid for by tax dollars... who the hell guards the Straights of Hormuz? How many billion a year does that cost? The profits, pumped into an Arab Princes pocket, goes to schooling an entire generation of madras-programed jihadists..

... and yer upset about the view? LOL... I imagine the visible proof of America's Pride and Power and proof against all threats is ugly... like a battleship, or aircraft carrier. And, like San Francisoo "Not in My Harbor", enh?

Bullpuckey.

Every time I see a 'windmill' I see evidence of alternative energy being utilized... another barrel of saudi crap not coming ashore here. You may not like the look of a windmill... but I'd rather have 50 of 'em in view off my coast than one stinking drilling platform. You'll get to look at yours in Texas, I'll get to look at mine here off Long Island.

Frankly, given the choice of eyeballing a windmill vs eyeballing a nuke or coal fired plant... I'll take a windmill farm.

As fer propaganda... well, I wonder who's the sucker?

Hang

[bj229r]

Frankly, given the choice of eyeballing a windmill vs eyeballing a nuke or coal fired plant... I'll take a windmill farm.

I truly dont this answer...Does any 'wind farm; equal a standard coal-fired power plant? And if not, how many windmills WOULD it take?

[BTW]

'Windmills' are coming outta GE in Wisconsin.
....


Frankly, given the choice of eyeballing a windmill vs eyeballing a nuke or coal fired plant... I'll take a windmill farm.

As fer propaganda... well, I wonder who's the sucker?

Hang

I sure hope its not General Electric GE, but I don't think they make windmills. What exactly do you find unattractive about a nuclear plant? They are pretty much geometrically benign. Seriously this not an aesthetic choice, but a practical choice.

[Scherf]

Every time *I* see a windmill, I see a tax subsidy.

[Gunslinger]

BJ and BT,

It's not I repeat NOT about replacement.  The cost and time to get a nuke plant online is staggering.  We havn't built one in decades plus the liberals (most of them) don't want them.

This isn't a fix, it's a suppliment.  I don't want tax subsidies but there is ALOT of land out there doing absolutly nothing at all.  We can put enough wind and solar farms on them to SUPPLIMENT our energy dependence while we build more nuke plants.....if you get the liberals in on it. 

This is the problem there is NO energy plan. 

SO what if we pay a farmer a few bucks to use his land.  That doesn't mean he's sitting on his bellybutton collecting a check.  Dollars to doughnuts he's still farming.  We should be investing in these not blowing them off as tried and faild because THEY"VE NEVER BEEN TRIED HERE!

Add this to some tidal current generators and you have a good source of clean energy to SUPPLIMENT the current supply and as hangtime said DEMAND IS GOING TO RISE!  do we buy more oil?  burn more coal?

[Hangtime]

I sure hope its not General Electric GE, but I don't think they make windmills. What exactly do you find unattractive about a nuclear plant? They are pretty much geometrically benign. Seriously this not an aesthetic choice, but a practical choice.

Obviously... you have not even eyeballed the Pickens operation, or it's plan. Yes, it's General Electric. As for the Nuke... we had one here. They shut it down because there's no feasible evacuation plan to get 3.5 million people off this island over the 5 bridges lat connect it with the resta this insane nation in less than 2 weeks.

Every time *I* see a windmill, I see a tax subsidy.

In the 140 buck a barrel environment, it's profitable without subsidy.. as long as the same protections provided to the oil companies with regards to legal impediments mounted by environmentalists against drilling and nuke operators are applied. The 'yer messing up the view and endangering spotted owls' garbage has to cease.

[Modas]

Now you & Boone can use your own money for whatever you want.  Nothing personal but if it's too expensive for you to invest your own money, it's just too expensive.  End of story.  Taking MY money and giving it to YOU for your private little project doesn't make the project economically justified.  There are already too many government subsidies given to private/special interest groups.  Now if the government wants my money to build nukes or a new electric grid or to develop solar technology or drill ANWR or similar for the good of the entire nation, I'm fine with that.  

Did you read my entire post or just immediately assume I was looking for a handout paid for with YOUR money? 

Just imagine if 1000 people had 20Kw systems on their property.  Again, 20Kw supplies 3 average homes.  That means there are 3000 homes that no longer need to rely on energy directly from the power company.  Ultimately your energy bill goes down because the power company isn't spending the money supply those 3000 homes.  Now imagine this program extended across all the states.  This doesn't help you how?

Your tax dollars are already being used to subsidize these programs whether you want them to or not.  However, your tax dollars are going into installations that are usually only big enough to run the residence with maybe a little bit extra left over.  So guess what?  You get NO benefit from that.  Wouldn't you rather have your tax dollars being allocated to programs that show you a little payback and help us get off oil dependancy?

Take a look at the economic impact that rising fuel costs has had on this country.  Guess what, if you think its bad now, stick around, because its only going to get worse.  I don't know what state you are in, but I'll bet when you pay your electric bill there is a little line item on there that says "energy assistance program"  You know what that is?   Those are YOUR dollars going being paid into a fund that pays for the energy used by people who can't pay for their power.  As the cost of energy continues to go up, the amount you are going to pay for this little gem of a program is also going to go up.  Do you think that's fair?  What's your payback on that?

Is wind/solar going to generate 100% of the US requirement?  Not a chance, but, we have to start somewhere.

[BTW]

Obviously... you have not even eyeballed the Pickens operation, or it's plan. Yes, it's General Electric. As for the Nuke... we had one here. They shut it down because there's no feasible evacuation plan to get 3.5 million people off this island over the 5 bridges lat connect it with the resta this insane nation in less than 2 weeks.

In the 140 buck a barrel environment, it's profitable without subsidy.. as long as the same protections provided to the oil companies with regards to legal impediments mounted by environmentalists against drilling and nuke operators are applied. The 'yer messing up the view and endangering spotted owls' garbage has to cease.

So General Electric is going to stop doing business in Iran and sell us windmills? I really wish it wasn't General Electric because I can no longer discuss his plan objectively, and it really does fail objectively. But I have no use for GE, so I can't discuss it objectively.

[Gunslinger]

So General Electric is going to stop doing business in Iran and sell us windmills?

your statement (without support) makes as much sense as a football bat

[BTW]

your statement (without support) makes as much sense as a football bat

While Iranian IED's were killing American soldiers in Iraq, GE was doing business in Iran.

[Gunslinger]

While Iranian IED's were killing American soldiers in Iraq, GE was doing business in Iran.

were they building power plants?

[Gunslinger]

I'll save you the trouble

"GE did about $270 million in business last year in Iran, representing less than 1% of its revenue, Sheffer said. Through a foreign subsidiary, GE has provided hydroelectric equipment, medical equipment, and oil and gas equipment in Iran."

Is what I could find.  This doesn't sound bad to be as usually this kind of stuff is allowed even with sanctions.  However, they have stated they have stopped doing business in iran.  This was 2005.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/manufacturing/2005-02-02-ge-iran_x.htm

[BTW]

were they building power plants?

Parts for them.

[JoeA]

Is wind/solar going to generate 100% of the US requirement?  Not a chance, but, we have to start somewhere.

I agree with this statement.  I think we disagree on the potential set of solutions which are capable of making a real difference.  Putting solar on one's roof, or similar, should be encouraged but not subsidized.  It's a feel good project but has too many moving parts if scaled to a size capable of making a real difference in solving the US energy problem.  I'm more than willing to subsidize energy projects that are large/massive enough and robust enough to make a difference.  For electricity alone, the US needs the equivalent of at least 50 to 100 new nukes over the next 30-50 years to make a significant improvement in both energy and emissions (reduce coal).