38 buttocks falling awaaaaay....? Pryo? HT?

[Vermillion]

Just to add some perspective to this discussion.  

I was watching a history channel show the other night on "The Guns of WWII", which was a history of the infantry weapons and how they were used.

Part of the show was a film clip showing a test of a Browning .30 MG (or maybe it was a Browning BAR .308 caliber, I don't remember since they were showing the results not the gun) firing standard AP ammo at a reinforced concrete wall approximately 4-6 inches thick. They were firing short controled bursts of 5-15 rounds, and then retargeting a new portion of the wall.

The results were very impressive.

The gun was literally blowing holes entirely thru the wall, of about 2ft in diameter.

Now should we start to discuss what .50 cal and 20mm weapons (much MUCH more power than .30's) will do to aluminum and steel framed aircraft?  

[Staga]

Verm take a .308 and shoot to cast-iron plate and see what happens. Next take steel or aluminium plate and repeat same.

[Vermillion]

I'm well aware of what a .308 will do to metal plates.  Depending on strength and thickness, and many other variables,  it will do anything from bounce off and make a dent, to make a hole, to even shattering the plating.

I've shot quite a few different military weapons (5.56mm, 7.62mm NATO, 7.62 Soviet, .30cal carbine, and many many more including some really high power hunting rifles) at "real targets", from wood frame houses, old vehicles, to even sandbagged bunkers. I'm quite familiar with the effects of weapons on real targets.

For instance a Soviet 7.62mm x 39mm steel core round from my chinese made AK-47, will go all the way thru a VW Minibus from the back and into the engine block, which suprised me considering that it is a relatively low velocity round.

So what was your point?

[batdog]

The point of this post has nothing to do w/the effectivenss of wep's being used. It was simply posted to bring into discussion the precieved easy, high probabilty for various "kill" shots on a 38. These being the entire tail section leaving,engine's destroyed etc.

 Lets not get all fired up here about this... that wasnt the purpose.

 Thank you
    xBAT

[Staga]

My point was different materials absorbs bullet strikes different ways, hard cast iron might broke in parts while bullet might penetrate "softer" steel or aluminium plate without any bigger damage, just leaving a small sign "I was here".

[Citabria]

p38s were tough customers.

i think they should be toughened up in the engine tail and wing area. same goes for p47 inner wings and tail.

there was even an incident of a p38 and 109 coliding headon.
all that remained of the 109 was a mangled twisted burning fuselage. the p38 was chopped up by the 109s prop from the engine to the tail on one side every few feet, the rear boom asembly was mangled badly by the colision on one side yet the p38 tough as it was returned to base and belly landed... the pilot stood up got out and passed out from shock

the inherent problem with this damage model AH has is that it is incomplete and unrealistic. it emphasizes de-winging and removal of pieces that didnt often come unglued in fights instead of what the real weakness was... the pilot, the fuel tanks, the ammunition.

it is because of this lack of realistic damage that lightweight turnfighters like the zeke and spits and n1k2 are every bit as tough and tougher in some cases than the heavy duty B&z iron planes.

what happens when you hit a fuel tank in Aces High?

it leaks.

if you hit it again does it catch fire?
once every few billion times it will.

basically almost never.

even the zipo zeke wont flame up very often when fuel tanks are hit. always a white trail is streaming from almost all zekes in a furball and then the occasional flaming zeke that flies around for a minute or so while it burns.

[Tac]

Besides, there is only one spot on the tail booms where ONE shell can rip the tail boom..and thats on the joints. How odd it seems that AH has joint-seeking bullets    

38's tail WAS fragile, but not as pathetic as it is in AH methinks.

Hey Cit, Xbat, 38/P-61 geeks, lets get HT a case of that cheap scotch he likes, maybe he'll look at it in "2 weeks"  

[Kingonads]

Cit.

     No cracks about burning A6M5s I am usualy one of those burning zeros.   But I still think that the planes in AH are not model correctly but its IMPOSSIBLE to get them perfect considering none of us ever flew one in a combat situation.  I do love the P38 in RL but in the game I have come to loath it for its impropper modeling of the tail boom.  I also think several other planes damage is way over modeled but U also have to look into the angle of attk on most shots the range and type of guns fired. I do think a 20mm will rip the tail section away from a P38 but it would have to be from the side at about 50m .

                      Hodo