Author Topic: Best Firewall / Anti-Virus ( Hardware or software types )  (Read 1111 times)

Offline TequilaChaser

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Best Firewall / Anti-Virus ( Hardware or software types )
« on: July 27, 2008, 03:35:03 PM »
In the past I have used Zone alarm ( and ZA Pro ) for my software firewall as a back up to the Firewall in my router

along with using NOD32......

I have heard others say Comodo is good, or that Kaspersky is good.........

I would like to hear others thoughts on this.

what is the better setup, smaller footprint/lowest processor usage in the background?

or should I stick with my NOD32 and ZoneAlarm Pro  and my routers Fire Wall

or what about Comodo & Nod32 as a setup along with my Router's Firewall

any suggestions would be appreciated
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Offline 2bighorn

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Re: Best Firewall / Anti-Virus ( Hardware or software types )
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2008, 03:41:58 PM »
Stick with NOD 32.

Let the ZA Pro license expire, then switch to Outpost Pro.

My $0.02

Offline Spatula

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Re: Best Firewall / Anti-Virus ( Hardware or software types )
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2008, 05:23:32 PM »
TC, FWIW, I use NOD32 and Comodo (but i turn the annoying 'safe search' and defence+ off). From what i have read Comodo scores pretty high in leak tests and is consistently one of the best. But it has started to become more 'bloaty' recently with 'value-added' 'features' etc etc which are a bit annoying - to me anyway.

ZA (Non-pro version) always seem to score pretty low in leak tests that I've seen.

But hey, im no expert on these sorts of things. Im sure Vulcan will chip in soon with his thoughts.
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Offline 2bighorn

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Re: Best Firewall / Anti-Virus ( Hardware or software types )
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2008, 05:56:20 PM »
Im sure Vulcan will chip in soon with his thoughts.

LOL, I doubt we'll hear more than sales pitch for Sonicwall.

Offline Fulmar

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Re: Best Firewall / Anti-Virus ( Hardware or software types )
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2008, 06:02:54 PM »
NOD32 seemed to work pretty good for me.  It didn't take up a lot of resources in the background like some other.  However, I did get a pretty good trojan a while back (my fault) and NOD32 couldn't stop all of it.  I had to boot into safe mode and back everything up.
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Offline wabbit

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Re: Best Firewall / Anti-Virus ( Hardware or software types )
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2008, 12:43:39 PM »
Comodo (free) for the software firewall.

AVG Free for Antivirus.

Spybot Search & Destroy for anti-adware/spyware.

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Offline humble

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Re: Best Firewall / Anti-Virus ( Hardware or software types )
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2008, 03:59:38 PM »
Comodo (free) for the software firewall.

AVG Free for Antivirus.

Spybot Search & Destroy for anti-adware/spyware.

Proximotron - proxy software for reducing displayed ads, to almost none. (speeds up page loading)


Wabbit

I agree with # 1-3 for sure, dont have any experiance with the last. I'd also consider threatfire as a compliment to AVG, its not a bad program at all and gives a bit of added "zero day" threat protection...an area AVG is historically week in.

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Offline llama

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Re: Best Firewall / Anti-Virus ( Hardware or software types )
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2008, 05:02:52 PM »
If you're behind a hardware firewall, I would just uninstall the software firewall altogether.

IMHO, if your software firewall is complaining about something bad trying to phone home, then you're already infected. At best, it acts like a canary in the mine. Meh. I do concede that such software makes people feel better, so if you feel better about having it, then keep it.

NOD32 is still the best thing out there for lightweight, hard-core AV protection. Stick with it.

I recently reviewed SonicWall's low-end "home" intelligent router for CPU Magazine: the SonicWall TZ-180. Actually I looked at 4 different UTM devices, with a 5th being reviewed privately for its manufacturer. Though the SonicWall is a fine, very-high-end router with lots of useful features for the networking nerd, it is most definitely NOT a useful layer of AV and AS protection. Sorry.

The low-end sonicwall (and indeed, most of the low-end UTMs) only have definitions for about 8000 viruses, compared to more than 100,000 for even the free AV software. From a relatively small test zoo of 50 viruses, the TZ-180 only blocked ONE. It blocked exactly ZERO drive-by-downloads. It did block most of the worms on an infected machine from phoning home, which I don't consider to be terribly useful, since you're already seriously infected at that point. It blocked EXE attachments for any email, which is a good practice, but it's just a simple filtering rules instead of smart AV detecting threats. It merely "closes" outbound TCP/IP ports instead of "stealthing" them unless you change its default behavior.

Perhaps in a few years, these home-level devices will be a valid antivirus tool, but certainly not today.

If you're a subscriber, you can read all about it at http://www.computerpoweruser.com/editorial/article.asp?article=articles%2Farchive%2Fc0808%2F07c08%2F07c08%2Easp&articleid=48903&guid=6B00BFDE9CEF47B7A794A93281415571&searchtype=0&WordList=SONICWALL&bJumpTo=True

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Offline 2bighorn

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Re: Best Firewall / Anti-Virus ( Hardware or software types )
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2008, 05:56:17 PM »
If you're behind a hardware firewall, I would just uninstall the software firewall altogether.

Depends. In today's average home you got hanging more than one PC and/or Laptop and as such more than one point of entry. There's still benefit of having both hardware and software firewall.

   

Offline Vulcan

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Re: Best Firewall / Anti-Virus ( Hardware or software types )
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2008, 08:20:39 PM »
If you're behind a hardware firewall, I would just uninstall the software firewall altogether.

IMHO, if your software firewall is complaining about something bad trying to phone home, then you're already infected. At best, it acts like a canary in the mine. Meh. I do concede that such software makes people feel better, so if you feel better about having it, then keep it.

NOD32 is still the best thing out there for lightweight, hard-core AV protection. Stick with it.

I recently reviewed SonicWall's low-end "home" intelligent router for CPU Magazine: the SonicWall TZ-180. Actually I looked at 4 different UTM devices, with a 5th being reviewed privately for its manufacturer. Though the SonicWall is a fine, very-high-end router with lots of useful features for the networking nerd, it is most definitely NOT a useful layer of AV and AS protection. Sorry.

The low-end sonicwall (and indeed, most of the low-end UTMs) only have definitions for about 8000 viruses, compared to more than 100,000 for even the free AV software. From a relatively small test zoo of 50 viruses, the TZ-180 only blocked ONE. It blocked exactly ZERO drive-by-downloads. It did block most of the worms on an infected machine from phoning home, which I don't consider to be terribly useful, since you're already seriously infected at that point. It blocked EXE attachments for any email, which is a good practice, but it's just a simple filtering rules instead of smart AV detecting threats. It merely "closes" outbound TCP/IP ports instead of "stealthing" them unless you change its default behavior.

-Llama


The AV sig set is supposed to reflect the active stuff out there. Even the bigger boxes only have around  28000 signatures. And to be honest the active stuff is probably less than 50 virus's, most of those being variants of about 5 core virus's. The boxes are always sold as a secondary line of AV/AS defence (if you search my posts you'll see that, and that I always recommend Nod32).

That odd with the drive by downloads, I see loads of stuff blocked on active sites.

The other thing I found to be a great malware killer is the content filter blocking advertising sites which seems to be the biggest vector for malware.

What do you mean about closing vs stealthing outbound ports? If spyware or a signature triggers a ips block outbound it sends a tcp rst.

Offline 2bighorn

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Re: Best Firewall / Anti-Virus ( Hardware or software types )
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2008, 09:08:22 PM »
Aye, Both manufacturer (Zyxel and Sonicwall) advertise virus defense for "in the wild" viruses.

Also, all 4 products are not even closely in the same class, nor the features correspond the price listed.

At best you may compare zywall USG100 and tz180 and even here is a "class" gap. In terms of capabilities USG100 is step above the tz180. TZ190 comes a bit closer.

Don't know why are you listing number of CPUs (all different specs), but not the memory (very important)

Testing throughput on 6Mbps connections is not adequate. Many users have 10Mbps down or more. Would be bugger to buy TZ180 just to find out it limits your 15Mbps connections to 10Mbps when you turn everything on.

Offline 715

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Re: Best Firewall / Anti-Virus ( Hardware or software types )
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2008, 09:36:52 PM »
Doesn't NOD32 handle adware and spyware in addition to virus files and trojans?  Their web page says it does and I hope so, since I dumped my Adware awhile ago.

Offline 2bighorn

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Re: Best Firewall / Anti-Virus ( Hardware or software types )
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2008, 10:07:58 PM »
Doesn't NOD32 handle adware and spyware in addition to virus files and trojans?  Their web page says it does and I hope so, since I dumped my Adware awhile ago.

Spyware, yes, adware no.

Offline Vulcan

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Re: Best Firewall / Anti-Virus ( Hardware or software types )
« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2008, 10:17:36 PM »
Aye, Both manufacturer (Zyxel and Sonicwall) advertise virus defense for "in the wild" viruses.

Also, all 4 products are not even closely in the same class, nor the features correspond the price listed.

At best you may compare zywall USG100 and tz180 and even here is a "class" gap. In terms of capabilities USG100 is step above the tz180. TZ190 comes a bit closer.

Don't know why are you listing number of CPUs (all different specs), but not the memory (very important)

Testing throughput on 6Mbps connections is not adequate. Many users have 10Mbps down or more. Would be bugger to buy TZ180 just to find out it limits your 15Mbps connections to 10Mbps when you turn everything on.

A TZ180 is basically a TZ190 less the card slot, a couple of ethernet ports, and standard OS. Throughput levels are the same. With the TZ180/190 throughput is around 6Mbps with everything turned on. True UTM processing is very CPU intensive. However I would expect the TZ180/190 to be replaced towards the end of the year with the new platform running OS5, and that typically has yielded a threefold performance increase.

Wow just scanned the review, who did it needs a kick in the pants : "Content filtering is based on the administrator (that is, you) entering URLs and IP addresses rather than selecting topics and letting the UTM decide what’s acceptable."

That is in blatantly incorrect.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2008, 10:20:49 PM by Vulcan »

Offline llama

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Re: Best Firewall / Anti-Virus ( Hardware or software types )
« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2008, 01:25:28 PM »
Lots of questions from lots of folks: I'll answer what I can.

Quote
Vulcan: "That odd with the drive by downloads, I see loads of stuff blocked on active sites."

Maybe with more advanced SonicWall gear, but not with this one. I was really looking forward to this level of blocking, but Norton blocked the exact same number of drive-bys when the test PC was hooked up behind the sonicwall and when it wasn't. To be fair, no home-level UTM did very well.

Quote
Vulcan: "What do you mean about closing vs stealthing outbound ports? If spyware or a signature triggers a ips block outbound it sends a tcp rst."

I mean when you do a portscan of an IP address where the Sonicwall is connected, all the inactive ports are reported as "they exist and are closed" rather than "these ports don't exist, so there's no point in looking for a response."

Quote
Vulcan: "The AV sig set is supposed to reflect the active stuff out there. Even the bigger boxes only have around  28000 signatures. And to be honest the active stuff is probably less than 50 virus's, most of those being variants of about 5 core virus's."

Yes, it is supposed to, but even variants of the Storm worm were allowed through. I had a mix of both old and very VERY new viruses, and I can't say that any of the units did very well. Bottom line: 8000 signatures just isn't enough, even when focusing on new threats. Oddly, the SonicWall blocked a virus when it was zipped up, but let it through when it was a straight uncompressed EXE.

Quote
Vulcan: "The boxes are always sold as a secondary line of AV/AS defence (if you search my posts you'll see that, and that I always recommend Nod32)."

I got these lines from the vendors after sharing my results with them. When I was acquiring them, they really were being sold as a primary line of defense. That's disingenuous. More on this later.

Quote
2BigHorn: "Aye, Both manufacturer (Zyxel and Sonicwall) advertise virus defense for "in the wild" viruses."

True. Sonicwalls' homepage says "SonicWALL's family of network security appliances combines robust UTM security services with high-speed deep packet inspection to provide small, mid-size and enterprise-class organizations the best protection possible." CheckPoint says "Safe@Office keeps your network safe with proven technology. " Stonger statements are made deeper in their websites.  That's the standard I held these devices to.

Quote
2BigHorn: "Also, all 4 products are not even closely in the same class, nor the features correspond the price listed."

Also agreed. But we sent the same parameters to many vendors, and these are the 4 that responded in time to meet deadlines, and these are the products they sent in response to the testing parameters. On top of that, most of the vendors knew what the other vendors were sending me when they sent me theirs. In other words, I didn't select these products. The vendors selected them based on our review criteria, which they knew about ahead of time.

Quote
2BigHorn: "Don't know why are you listing number of CPUs (all different specs), but not the memory (very important)"

"CPUS" refers to the CPU Magazine scoring system, where 1 star is terrible, 5 stars are perfect, and 2.5 stars average. The magazine refers to the scoring in language like "This product earns 3.5 CPUs." Not my system, BTW, but its is required in all reviews.

Quote
2BigHorn: "Testing throughput on 6Mbps connections is not adequate. Many users have 10Mbps down or more. Would be bugger to buy TZ180 just to find out it limits your 15Mbps connections to 10Mbps when you turn everything on."

I initially tested throughput speed reductions by setting up servers on a 100 MB internal LAN,  and partially though testing, editors wanted my tests changed to a "real" internet connection. The neighborhood where I can test with a FIOS connection was having problems due to water damage that month from a sewage problem (murphy's law), so a 6mbit DSL connection was it. I agree that a 6MBit connection is not the fastest connection a power user might have in this day and age. This is indeed a shortcoming of the review.

Quote
Vulcan: "Wow just scanned the review, who did it needs a kick in the pants : 'Content filtering is based on the administrator (that is, you) entering URLs and IP addresses rather than selecting topics and letting the UTM decide what’s acceptable.' That is in blatantly incorrect."

The categorized content filter/monitor was not included in the unit I received from SonicWall, where I understand it to be an extra-cost option and subscription at this price point. The lack of its presence was noted, but it didn't affect scoring. Our initial request for units did not specify the need for this feature, but when it was present in all the other models, is absence was merely noted, as the initial paragraphs stated it would.

Needless to say, all the vendors got in touch with us after the review went out. None were very happy, as you can imagine. Some requested changes, and where they were right, we made them. Sonicwall did not request a change to the content filtering statement.

Not everyone was unhappy, however.

Watchguard sent me a similar unit, but it arrived too late for the review. Here's what one of their product managers wrote me when I said I would be happy to play with it, but it probably wouldn't lead to a printed review:

"Yes, I did read the article, and it looks as if you pulled no punches,
which is exactly why I'd like to share any feedback you have with our PM
team.  Even if it doesn't make it into print, it's always helpful for us
to get real-world feedback.  And, especially since you beat up the other
players, I know you'll be giving us the same, fair pounding!"


I'll close with this: tech journalists and reviewers are normally bashed for not testing thoroughly enough, or going too easy on non-performing products. It was nice not to be accused of this for a change. ;-)

-Llama


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