Author Topic: P-39Q ever have a 20mm as a Field Mod?  (Read 969 times)

Offline angelsandair

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P-39Q ever have a 20mm as a Field Mod?
« on: July 28, 2008, 01:52:13 PM »
Just curious.  :aok

Edit: Would like to find a source or a personal account.... etc.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2008, 02:41:49 PM by angelsandair »
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Goto Google and type in "French military victories", then hit "I'm feeling lucky".
Here lie these men on this sun scoured atoll,
The wind for their watcher, the wave for their shroud,
Where palm and pandanus shall whisper forever,
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Offline angelsandair

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Re: P-39Q ever have a 20mm as a Field Mod?
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2008, 03:46:44 PM »
 :(
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Goto Google and type in "French military victories", then hit "I'm feeling lucky".
Here lie these men on this sun scoured atoll,
The wind for their watcher, the wave for their shroud,
Where palm and pandanus shall whisper forever,
A requiem fitting for heroes

Offline *PAPA*

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Re: P-39Q ever have a 20mm as a Field Mod?
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2008, 05:07:51 PM »
Here's a link I found when I researched the P-39. It is actually Soviet written. http://www.airpages.ru/cgi-bin/epg.pl?nav=uk60&page=p39rus It talks about the different MG mods that were possible but never made. 

And the Wiki of the P39 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P-39_Airacobra
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Offline angelsandair

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Re: P-39Q ever have a 20mm as a Field Mod?
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2008, 05:23:42 PM »
wiki didn't help me out, I already looked there.

I recall WideWing posting up on that matter when the P-39 first came out. Cant seem to find the post though.
Quote
Goto Google and type in "French military victories", then hit "I'm feeling lucky".
Here lie these men on this sun scoured atoll,
The wind for their watcher, the wave for their shroud,
Where palm and pandanus shall whisper forever,
A requiem fitting for heroes

Offline *PAPA*

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Re: P-39Q ever have a 20mm as a Field Mod?
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2008, 07:42:22 PM »
The soviets seemed happy with the M4 cannon and wanted to preserve the handling of the plane.  They thought about moving the MGs closer in and thought it was doable but decided to leave it alone.

But apparently the British did put a 20mm in:

http://www.xs4all.nl/~fbonne/warbirds/ww2htmls/bellp39.html
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Offline Squire

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Re: P-39Q ever have a 20mm as a Field Mod?
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2008, 09:07:09 PM »
The Russians removed the wing guns on many of their P-39s, believing the weight savings was a better trade off to the small firepower. The P-39Q in Russian service was almost always used sans the gondola .50 calibers.

In answer to your question re: the P-39Q and the 20mm. Not that I have ever seen. The only P-39s in VVS service with 20mm hispanos were the P-400s (export P-39 for the RAF), and some of the P-39Ds that operated in 1942-43.

I have two books on Russian P-39 aces ("P-39 Aces of WW2" and "Russian Lend Lease Aces of WW2", both by Osprey)and there are no photos, or mention of any mods done to the P-39N/Qs nose armament, or the nose armament of any of their P-39s in WW2.

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Offline angelsandair

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Re: P-39Q ever have a 20mm as a Field Mod?
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2008, 05:53:34 AM »
I recall WideWing talking about them putting SHvaks on the P-39 (was a long time ago...)
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Goto Google and type in "French military victories", then hit "I'm feeling lucky".
Here lie these men on this sun scoured atoll,
The wind for their watcher, the wave for their shroud,
Where palm and pandanus shall whisper forever,
A requiem fitting for heroes

Offline Squire

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Re: P-39Q ever have a 20mm as a Field Mod?
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2008, 12:55:15 PM »
The Russians did put ShVAK into many of their Hurricane IIb's, after removing the .303 cal wing guns. Its certainly possible there were some field mods done, all I can say is that I have never seen a source for them modding the P-39s nose cannon. Even if they did, its unlikely it was a common enough practice that HTC is going to give it as an option. Your going to need a lot of sources to even begin to make the case.

The USAAF in the SW Pacific in 1942 did remove some of the 37mm in the P-39D's and replace them with the 20mm hispano as a field mod, but that option is already in AH. 

I did find this:

"The only mention of this gun appeared in the book "Soviet X- Planes" by Gunston/Yefim Gordon.
According to that a Taubin 37 mm with 81 rounds was put into the Gudkov Gu-1 a design based in the P-39 airacobra. The emplacement was in the nose like the way the P-39 had its Colt M4 gun.
For several reason I think this is a mistake and probably Gordon mixed up with the 23 mm variant."

This was a planned Russian built version of the P-39, but they never built it.

...The Russians were big on field mods, and were not afraid to expirament, so I would hardly be surprised if they never tried to mount a few different guns on the P-39, but thats a far cry from saying "it was a standard mod" and finding enough proof to justify it in AH2.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2008, 01:09:12 PM by Squire »
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Offline Hajo

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Re: P-39Q ever have a 20mm as a Field Mod?
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2008, 12:50:10 PM »
The Brits ordered the P39 with a 20mm hub cannon if I remember correctly.

They loved the P39 so much they gave them back and they were sent to the PAC with the designation P400.  The USAAF Pilots disliked the P39 under most circumstances.  The Pilots said that P400   with the extra zero meant a P39 with a zero on its' 6.  :lol
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Offline Motherland

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Re: P-39Q ever have a 20mm as a Field Mod?
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2008, 12:51:54 PM »
I thought the saying was 'The P400 is a P40 with a zero on it's tail'?

Offline MiloMorai

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Re: P-39Q ever have a 20mm as a Field Mod?
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2008, 03:49:41 PM »
I thought the saying was 'The P400 is a P40 with a zero on it's tail'?

Tail is the 6 o'clock position.

Offline angelsandair

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Re: P-39Q ever have a 20mm as a Field Mod?
« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2008, 04:03:52 PM »
The Russians loved it so much, the #2 Allied Ace (Recorded kills, #1 for the Amount his squad saw him kill as the Russians had to be able to recover the downed aircraft) Pokryshkin flew the P-39! P-39 has the highest score ever gained by any pilot that flew a U.S. Aircraft.
Quote
Goto Google and type in "French military victories", then hit "I'm feeling lucky".
Here lie these men on this sun scoured atoll,
The wind for their watcher, the wave for their shroud,
Where palm and pandanus shall whisper forever,
A requiem fitting for heroes

Offline DaveJ

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Re: P-39Q ever have a 20mm as a Field Mod?
« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2008, 04:39:35 PM »
Does it matter if it did or not?
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Offline Hajo

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Re: P-39Q ever have a 20mm as a Field Mod?
« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2008, 07:27:25 PM »
Angelsandair....russians and LW flew low on their fronts.  For the PAC and ETO battles were fought at higher altitudes.

Plus....I don't think all his kills were air to air.  I think they were vehicles and armour included.

The USAAF wouldn't use the P63 King Cobra either.  Was used as a target or target tug.

Read Fire in the Sky by Eric Bergerud.  P39 had a lousy reputation.  Most who flew the P39 wished they could fly the P40 instead
at Guadalcanal.

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Offline angelsandair

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Re: P-39Q ever have a 20mm as a Field Mod?
« Reply #14 on: July 30, 2008, 07:41:05 PM »
Angelsandair....russians and LW flew low on their fronts.  For the PAC and ETO battles were fought at higher altitudes.

Plus....I don't think all his kills were air to air.  I think they were vehicles and armour included.

The USAAF wouldn't use the P63 King Cobra either.  Was used as a target or target tug.

Read Fire in the Sky by Eric Bergerud.  P39 had a lousy reputation.  Most who flew the P39 wished they could fly the P40 instead
at Guadalcanal.



Course, that was the underpowered P-400/P-39D.

P-63 could climb a heck of a lot faster than any U.S. made plane. And could catch the La-7 on the deck and out turn it.

Pokryshkin's kills were air to air. I found a logg of all his air to air victories if you'd like them. :salute
Quote
Goto Google and type in "French military victories", then hit "I'm feeling lucky".
Here lie these men on this sun scoured atoll,
The wind for their watcher, the wave for their shroud,
Where palm and pandanus shall whisper forever,
A requiem fitting for heroes