Author Topic: Lucas REALLY ****ed up this time...  (Read 1392 times)

Offline lasersailor184

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8938
Re: Lucas REALLY ****ed up this time...
« Reply #30 on: July 30, 2008, 08:16:03 AM »
Considering you weren't even a gleam in your daddy's eyes when the originals came out, you really wouldn't know.  I was lucky enough to see a special screening over the weekend and I have to say it was very good and your description of the movie is way off the mark.  Not surprised though, since all you based your opinion on was a 2 minute and 30 second trailer.  I honestly thought it was far better than Episodes I, II, and III, which by the way are the ones that almost killed it for us that grew up with the original trilogy.


ack-ack

I haven't seen enough of it to fall in line with the naysayers.  I might catch a matinee sometime.
Punishr - N.D.M. Back in the air.
8.) Lasersailor 73 "Will lead the impending revolution from his keyboard"

Offline Serenity

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7313
Re: Lucas REALLY ****ed up this time...
« Reply #31 on: July 30, 2008, 11:25:54 AM »
I have the prequel trilogy on DVD. Haven't watched any of them since Episode III first came out on it.

I have the OT double-pack with the original un-Specialied versions on Disk 2 and that's the only ones I've been watching.

Read most of the books up through the end of New Jedi Order. They SHOULD have stopped with the last book in the previous run (Vision of the Future). I never even read the last series (as far as I'm concerned, Mara is alive).

I think the latest one in the timeline I read was vision of the future as well. I could never really get into that whole organic-alien-weapons thing...

Offline ChickenHawk

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1010
Re: Lucas REALLY ****ed up this time...
« Reply #32 on: July 30, 2008, 11:34:07 AM »
The glory days of Star Wars were over a long, long time ago.  Lucas is just milking it for everything he can now.  Sad.




















If this thread doesn't bring Chairboy out of the woodwork, nothing will.
Do not attribute to malice what can be easily explained by incompetence, fear, ignorance or stupidity, because there are millions more garden variety idiots walking around in the world than there are blackhearted Machiavellis.

Offline RTHolmes

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8260
Re: Lucas REALLY ****ed up this time...
« Reply #33 on: July 30, 2008, 11:56:22 AM »
just in case any star wars nuts haven't seen it, heres a link to an episode of the hit Imperial TV show TROOPS:

http://download.theforce.net/theater/shortfilms/troops/troops.zip

:D
71 (Eagle) Squadron

What most of us want to do is simply shoot stuff and look good doing it - Chilli

Offline Saxman

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9155
Re: Lucas REALLY ****ed up this time...
« Reply #34 on: July 30, 2008, 12:17:22 PM »
Star Wars Required Reading:

Timothy Zahn
Michael Stackpole
Aaron Allston

Everyone else can be flushed. Kevin J. Anderson should be buried to his neck in sand and then stoned.
Ron White says you can't fix stupid. I beg to differ. Stupid will usually sort itself out, it's just a matter of making sure you're not close enough to become collateral damage.

Offline john9001

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9453
Re: Lucas REALLY ****ed up this time...
« Reply #35 on: July 30, 2008, 12:25:30 PM »
i think the first star wars was intended to be a one time movie, but it made so much money that lucas decided to do sequels, when you have a money maker you run with it.

Offline Ack-Ack

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 25260
      • FlameWarriors
Re: Lucas REALLY ****ed up this time...
« Reply #36 on: July 30, 2008, 02:32:46 PM »
i think the first star wars was intended to be a one time movie, but it made so much money that lucas decided to do sequels, when you have a money maker you run with it.

That was his original intent but as he kept on rewriting the original Star Wars treatment and screenplay, he found that a single movie wasn't large enough to tell the story he wanted.  His original intent was to pay homage to the old Saturday morning seriel matinees he grew up watching as a child.


ack-ack
"If Jesus came back as an airplane, he would be a P-38." - WW2 P-38 pilot
Elite Top Aces +1 Mexican Official Squadron Song

Offline Serenity

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7313
Re: Lucas REALLY ****ed up this time...
« Reply #37 on: July 30, 2008, 08:04:24 PM »
Star Wars Required Reading:

Timothy Zahn
Michael Stackpole
Aaron Allston

Everyone else can be flushed. Kevin J. Anderson should be buried to his neck in sand and then stoned.

Tomothy Zahn rocks

Offline Saxman

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9155
Re: Lucas REALLY ****ed up this time...
« Reply #38 on: July 30, 2008, 09:39:24 PM »
Yep. Zahn was probably the closest to capturing the characters and atmosphere of the Original Trilogy out of all the other authors. And I know she takes a lot of flak from some fans, but Mara Jade was the best character to come out of the Expanded Universe.

Stackpole wasn't far behind in that regard, and I loved Allston's sense of humor.

However The best part of these three IMO is that they skirted around all the badly screwed up tech guides and hid pre-West End Games specs in their writing (I think Stackpole is the only writer who ever got away with correctly sizing the Super Star Destroyer).
Ron White says you can't fix stupid. I beg to differ. Stupid will usually sort itself out, it's just a matter of making sure you're not close enough to become collateral damage.

Offline Serenity

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7313
Re: Lucas REALLY ****ed up this time...
« Reply #39 on: July 30, 2008, 09:44:51 PM »
However The best part of these three IMO is that they skirted around all the badly screwed up tech guides and hid pre-West End Games specs in their writing (I think Stackpole is the only writer who ever got away with correctly sizing the Super Star Destroyer).

Ive always heard it as being 1,600 meters. Is that wrong?

Offline Saxman

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9155
Re: Lucas REALLY ****ed up this time...
« Reply #40 on: July 30, 2008, 09:51:57 PM »
Imperator-class (Imperial Star Destroyer) is 1600 meters. The Super Star Destroyer is 17.6km (per scaling in the films, and ILM's own statements in interviews during the filming of ESB and RotJ). West End Games incorrectly cut that length roughly in half (8000m).

Unfortunately, WEG took a "who cares" approach to research, not realizing that their target audience--nerds--actually DO care about these details. Apparently, they must have missed the reaction to Star Trek.... Because they were the first official source, all subsequent products must follow them.

Oh, and for good measure, here's my OWN Wednesday Red-head. :D

« Last Edit: July 30, 2008, 09:57:05 PM by Saxman »
Ron White says you can't fix stupid. I beg to differ. Stupid will usually sort itself out, it's just a matter of making sure you're not close enough to become collateral damage.

Offline Octavius

  • Skinner Team
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6651
Re: Lucas REALLY ****ed up this time...
« Reply #41 on: July 30, 2008, 09:54:44 PM »
Funny thing, I actually did that for the last movie (Episode III). First, last and ONLY time I will ever do that. I thought it would be fun, ya know. Star Wars nerds like me have been doing that since the beginning, I thought It was time for me to go to one of the midnight premiers, (Since it was going to be the last). I always thought I was a nerd... and then I saw the other guys waiting in line! lol.

No way in hell I'm even going to pay to see this one.

I'd just like to comment that you were not in existence "from the beginning."  Move along.
octavius
Fat Drunk BasTards (forum)

"bastard coated bastards with bastard filling?  delicious!"
Guest of the ++Blue Knights++[/size]

Offline Serenity

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7313
Re: Lucas REALLY ****ed up this time...
« Reply #42 on: July 30, 2008, 10:40:49 PM »
Imperator-class (Imperial Star Destroyer) is 1600 meters. The Super Star Destroyer is 17.6km (per scaling in the films, and ILM's own statements in interviews during the filming of ESB and RotJ). West End Games incorrectly cut that length roughly in half (8000m).

Unfortunately, WEG took a "who cares" approach to research, not realizing that their target audience--nerds--actually DO care about these details. Apparently, they must have missed the reaction to Star Trek.... Because they were the first official source, all subsequent products must follow them.

Oh, and for good measure, here's my OWN Wednesday Red-head. :D

(Image removed from quote.)

By SSD you mean the Executor, right? The books I have state 8,000 meters (In The Essential Guide to Vehicles and Vessels, text by Bill Smith, Schematics by Troy Vigil) and 12,800 meters (The New Essential Guide to Vehicles and Vessels, text by W. Haden Blackman) and (I believe in one of the Rogue Squadron series, though I don't recall which book exactly) it was supposed to be 10 times the size of an Imperial II. The Eclipse-class SSD is, however listed as being 17,500 meters in both books. As we can see, no two sources always agree on these things, but could there have been a mix-up?

Offline BaDkaRmA158Th

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2542
Re: Lucas REALLY ****ed up this time...
« Reply #43 on: July 30, 2008, 11:03:10 PM »
I'd just like to comment that you were not in existence "from the beginning."  Move along.


Would just like to comment and say that you, while in existence at the time, did not see the beginning.

 :aok

Talk about coming into a story half way.  :rock
~383Rd RTC/CH BW/AG~
BaDfaRmA

My signature says "Our commitment to diplomacy will never inhibit our willingness to kick a$s."

Offline Saxman

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9155
Re: Lucas REALLY ****ed up this time...
« Reply #44 on: July 30, 2008, 11:46:52 PM »
By SSD you mean the Executor, right? The books I have state 8,000 meters (In The Essential Guide to Vehicles and Vessels, text by Bill Smith, Schematics by Troy Vigil)

This is wrong. It comes from the Sourcebooks for the old West End Games Star Wars RPG and was based on a misinterpretation of "Five times as powerful" meaning "five times as LARGE." The EGVV (editions 1, 2, and so on) are just repeating the same bad information, and introduce all SORTS of problems of their own (their schematics for most of the ships are just plain WRONG. If you go by their schematics for the E-wing, the cockpit area is no more than three feet wide!)

and 12,800 meters (The New Essential Guide to Vehicles and Vessels, text by W. Haden Blackman)...

Also wrong. This was a half-assed attempt to "fix" the error after enough people called them on it.

...and (I believe in one of the Rogue Squadron series, though I don't recall which book exactly) it was supposed to be 10 times the size of an Imperial II.

I'll have to double-check, but I believe the quote came from X-wing Book 4: The Bacta War, and the officer said 11 times, which is the 17.6km length I indicated above. Been a while since I read it, but I remember that the quote nailed the length exactly.

The Eclipse-class SSD is, however listed as being 17,500 meters in both books. As we can see, no two sources always agree on these things, but could there have been a mix-up?

I have EGV v1, and it places the Eclipse at 16km.

As far as differences in the sources, you have to look at the overall context.

The first published size statements by West End Games places Executor at 8km long. This is contrary to not only ILM information, but visual "yardsticking" using the Imperial Star Destroyer in all scenes where the two ships are shown side-by-side (one in particular shot from ESB shows an ISD behind Executor that is clearly at LEAST 1/11 the size of the smaller ship. A second ISD is in front at nearly the same scale. ALL SUBSEQUENT STAR WARS MATERIAL was required by the licensing agreements with LucasFilm to abide by the West End Games data.

Later editions of the Sourcebooks attempted to fix the discrepancy by slowly bumping up the size. The new Wizards of the Coast game further worked to correct this, unfortunately the damage was done.

A few authors like Stackpole recognized these mistakes and fixed them, although they had to do it VERY subtly to slip past the licensing police.

I'm not sure if the site is still there, but look for the Star Wars Technical Commentaries by Curtis Saxton. He did a VERY in-depth analysis on this. The "Size of the SSD" article is the most valuable thing on the site. The rest you can pretty much ignore, as Saxton puts a lot of his own politics and ego into it. I, and others, have pointed out flaws in some of his arguments (naval terminology on the whole and as relates to Star Destroyers in particular--he consistently ignores the fact that Star Destroyer is a proper noun, not a "destroyer" in the traditional sense--and pretty much every shred of "evidence" he claims is in the RotJ film that proves the Ewoks were wiped out by the Death Star explosion is actually heavily forced and truthfully non-existent) but unfortunately, Mr. Saxton likes to wave his astro-physics degree in everyone's face, despite the fact that outside of actual FUNCTIONALITY that really doesn't lend much to analysis of the ships themselves.

Also, as a bit of shameless self-promotion, I wrote this up a while ago:

Starfighters of the Rebellion

I only got as far as a general survey, and the specific page on the X-wing before I lost interest. It's pretty old, though.

It looks best if you download this font: StarJedi

;)
« Last Edit: July 30, 2008, 11:52:07 PM by Saxman »
Ron White says you can't fix stupid. I beg to differ. Stupid will usually sort itself out, it's just a matter of making sure you're not close enough to become collateral damage.