Author Topic: WE'RE GETTING THE T34/85!!!  (Read 3866 times)

Offline crockett

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Re: WE'RE GETTING THE T34/85!!!
« Reply #75 on: August 01, 2008, 04:37:55 PM »
does the t34/85 have "more" or "better" armor than the current t34, or is it the same as the current t34?


I'm pretty certian the lower half of the tank is the same, it just has a bigger turret and main gun. Could have a diffrent engine and so on but I think the basic chassis armor is the same.
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Offline dunnrite

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Re: WE'RE GETTING THE T34/85!!!
« Reply #76 on: August 01, 2008, 04:38:28 PM »
Imagine eating chili before going out.   WOOHOO, imagine a good "ripper".   

You do realize all five men have a firearm and are not normally in a very good mood?
Amazing you could actually recruit that much suck into one squad.
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Offline Lusche

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Re: WE'RE GETTING THE T34/85!!!
« Reply #77 on: August 01, 2008, 04:38:51 PM »
does the t34/85 have "more" or "better" armor than the current t34, or is it the same as the current t34?

Has already been answered in this thread. Read JHerne's first post.
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Offline opposum

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Re: WE'RE GETTING THE T34/85!!!
« Reply #78 on: August 01, 2008, 05:16:29 PM »
Has already been answered in this thread. Read JHerne's first post.

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Offline JHerne

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Re: WE'RE GETTING THE T34/85!!!
« Reply #79 on: August 01, 2008, 05:30:58 PM »
Ok guys, to save everyone from banging on the poor Wiki, here's what you need to know about the T-34/85 from a HISTORICAL pespective. I have no clue about how it will perform in-game.

The shortcomings of the T-34/76 were realized in the first two years of the war, but further evolution of the tank was limited by the Soviets. This was because Comrade Stalin needed every T-34 at the front, and developing an improved version of the T-34/76 would draw production resources away from current models. It was decided that no major modifications would be made to the T-34/76 until at least 1942, when the German advance in to Russia could be stopped.

In January 1943, the Russians captured the first German Tiger I. Although the Russians were not overly worried about the Tiger I's appearance on the front (due to the low production numbers), it was noted that other tanks (namely the KV series) would have to continue to be developed to handle the Tigers.

When the German advance was halted and the Russians had sufficient numbers of T-34/76s, focus was directed to a new tank, the T-43, which started trials in March, 1943. The battle at Kursk, where the Russians faced Tigers and Panthers in numbers for the first time, caused the Russians to go into panic mode to find a quick solution to handling the German cats.

The resulting compromise was the up-gunning of the T-34/76 with a derivative of the T-43 turret fitting with an 85mm D5-T gun produced by the No. 9 Artillery plant in Sverdlovsk. The first 800 or so T-34/85 Model 1943 were equipped with the D5-T gun, and the remainder were fitted with the Zis-S-53 produced by Savin at Artillery Plant 92.

The changes made to the T-34/85 included the relocation of the radio set from the driver's position (in T-34/76s) to the commander's side of the turret wall.

T-34/85s were equipped with TSh-16 articulated telescopic site (see 'running wish list' thread in Wish List forum for an explanation of a telescopic site) replacing the T-34/76 TSh-15 site. This resulted in the relocation of the commander's cupola about 16 inches aft of the existing position on the T-34/76 (relative to the turret ring race). Aside from that, there were no other changes made to the existing T-34/76 Mod 42/43 hulls. Same engine, gearbox, armor thicknesses, degree of armor slope, etc.

T-34/85 versus the German Panther tank:

The T-34/85 did not reverse the technical advantage held by German armor, but it certainly matched it. The T-34/85 was more than a match for the Panzer IV Ausf J, the most commonly seen German AFV of the early 1944 period. The T-34/85 was far from equal to the Panther, especially in the early stages when the 85mm gun was using BR-365 ammunition. The only way a T-34/85 could kill a Panther is with a side or rear shot, or a lucky hit on the small vertical plate of the turret face. It could not penetrate the mantlet or glacis plate.

The Panther, however, could penetrate the glacis and mantlet of the T-34 at ranges of 1200m. Both tanks could achieve side penetration at ranges of 2500 meters. By the summer of 1944, the T-34/85 had BR-365P hyper-velocity rounds that finally allowed it to penetrate a Panther glacis at 500m.

Early versions of the T-34/85 had a manual traversing system, but late in 1944, an MB20V electric system was installed that increased the traverse speed. It was not accurate enough for gun-laying, which still had to be done manually by the gunner. The gunner used two systems, a MK-4 wide-angle telescoping site for finding the rough bearing of the target, and the TSh-16 site for aiming. This system used a focal-length ranging system based on the target window, identical to focal-length rangefinder today. The focal length of the site matched a pre-determined range distance, allowing rough ranges to be achieved within 25 meters.

Internal fuel capacity was reduced to 545 liters from 610 in the T-34/76, but provisions were made to carry another 270 liters in cylindrical tanks on the outside of the vehicle. Since the T-34 used a diesel engine, fire was not as serious a concern.

So...in the game, the T-34/85 should have the same armor, speed, gearbox, controls, etc. The additional crewman (a loader) should decrease the reload times over the T-34/76. Against the Tiger I, a T-34/85 will not be able to penetrate the front glacis or mantlet unless point-blank, 350 meters or less, and only with BR-365P rounds (which should be perked ammo). Side hull shots, turret shots and rear-end shots can be made with BR-365P rounds from 1500 meters or less. A T-34/85 cannot penetrate the front glacis of a King Tiger.

In the game, against a Sherman or Panzer IV or T-34/76, the T-34/85 should be able to achieve armor penetration at ranges in excess of 2000 meters, front, back, or side with BR-365P, and with conventional AP BP-365 at ranges below 1500 meters.

Any questions?

Jeff
« Last Edit: August 01, 2008, 05:35:22 PM by JHerne »
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Offline Motherland

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Re: WE'RE GETTING THE T34/85!!!
« Reply #80 on: August 01, 2008, 05:34:51 PM »
Great info! You certainly seem to know your stuff! :aok

Offline JHerne

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Re: WE'RE GETTING THE T34/85!!!
« Reply #81 on: August 01, 2008, 05:37:09 PM »
Thanks,

I do it for a living... basically, I'm just a weapons systems geek.  :rolleyes:

Jeff
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Offline Bronk

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Re: WE'RE GETTING THE T34/85!!!
« Reply #82 on: August 01, 2008, 05:48:30 PM »
Jherne check your pm please.
See Rule #4

Offline Squire

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Re: WE'RE GETTING THE T34/85!!!
« Reply #83 on: August 01, 2008, 06:45:21 PM »
Some armor and gun comparisons:

T-34/76 M1943

Turret Mantlet: 70mm/curved
Upper Hull: 45mm/60 degrees
Lower Hull: 45mm/53 degrees
Top: 20mm

Gun at 500 yards: 73mm (AP) or 95mm (HVAP)

T-34/85 M1944

Turret Mantlet: 90mm/curved
Upper Hull: 45mm/60 degrees
Lower Hull: 45mm/53 degrees
Top: 20mm

Gun at 500 yards: 110mm (AP) or 139mm (HVAP)

Sherman Firefly IIC

Turret Mantlet: 89mm/curved
Upper Hull: 51mm/50 degrees
Lower Hull: 51mm/15 degrees
Top: 19mm

Gun at 500 yards: 157mm (AP)

...so in comparison the T-34/85 is a good "in between" tank compared to the T-34/76 and Firefly. It certainly is not a JS-2, or an M26 Pershing, or Tiger I. Its a good medium tank, it was an "up gunned" T-34/76, with slightly better armor. Of course, the Russians built them by the 1000s.

If AH2 models it with HVAP it will be better (they got the round in the summer of 1944), but still not as good as the Firelfy's 76mm round.

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Offline DaveJ

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Re: WE'RE GETTING THE T34/85!!!
« Reply #84 on: August 01, 2008, 07:06:36 PM »
Why?   If you need help, why not ask for it?   Are you "too proud" to do such a thing?    

No Karaya, I just have zero interest in GVing and don't find the appeal in it.

However, running m3s and jeeps is quite fun sometimes.
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Offline Scherf

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Re: WE'RE GETTING THE T34/85!!!
« Reply #85 on: August 01, 2008, 07:08:47 PM »
In the grand tradition of "damned if you do, damned if you don't", I do get peeved sometimes about all-new or upgraded models being used in the same pointy-click, furball environment with no real strat to speak of.

I wonder if the time wouldn't be better spent changing the structure of the game - hard to stay motivated for the same old same old, even with new toys.

meh, I suck.
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Offline VansCrew1

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Re: WE'RE GETTING THE T34/85!!!
« Reply #86 on: August 01, 2008, 07:17:13 PM »
Some armor and gun comparisons:

T-34/76 M1943

Turret Mantlet: 70mm/curved
Upper Hull: 45mm/60 degrees
Lower Hull: 45mm/53 degrees
Top: 20mm

Gun at 500 yards: 73mm (AP) or 95mm (HVAP)

T-34/85 M1944

Turret Mantlet: 90mm/curved
Upper Hull: 45mm/60 degrees
Lower Hull: 45mm/53 degrees
Top: 20mm

Gun at 500 yards: 110mm (AP) or 139mm (HVAP)

Sherman Firefly IIC

Turret Mantlet: 89mm/curved
Upper Hull: 51mm/50 degrees
Lower Hull: 51mm/15 degrees
Top: 19mm

Gun at 500 yards: 157mm (AP)

...so in comparison the T-34/85 is a good "in between" tank compared to the T-34/76 and Firefly. It certainly is not a JS-2, or an M26 Pershing, or Tiger I. Its a good medium tank, it was an "up gunned" T-34/76, with slightly better armor. Of course, the Russians built them by the 1000s.

If AH2 models it with HVAP it will be better (they got the round in the summer of 1944), but still not as good as the Firelfy's 76mm round.



Great info.
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Offline Raptor

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Re: WE'RE GETTING THE T34/85!!!
« Reply #87 on: August 01, 2008, 07:19:11 PM »
Now that I see this... I want a 76mm Sherman

Offline JHerne

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Re: WE'RE GETTING THE T34/85!!!
« Reply #88 on: August 01, 2008, 07:22:52 PM »
76mm Sherman had ballistics performance very close to the Firefly. In fact, it was the success of the Firefly (76.2mm) that led the US to develop the 76mm Sherman.

I think we pretty much already have one...

Now...a 105mm Sherman Jumbo that we could use to pork bases, that's a idea!

J
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Offline sethipus

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Re: WE'RE GETTING THE T34/85!!!
« Reply #89 on: August 01, 2008, 07:42:00 PM »
So what we'll be getting is a T34 that's still fast, still has great survivability on base assaults, etc., can slaughter Panzers, and can actually stand up to the Firefly at the type of ranges they're likely to be shooting at each other.  Right now the current T34/76 is all but useless against Tigers, unless you are close and can pop their turret from the side or back, or kill their engine, and then just pound them until it finally gives.

The T34/85 will be far from the Tiger killer that the Firefly is right now, but will be far more effective against it than the current model T34.  That's very satisfactory.  It'll probably be much easier to pop a Tiger or Sherman turret in the T34/85, which is awesome.

Given the T34's better speed and lower profile, but the Firefly's still-better gun, I have to wonder what an appropriate perk level will be.  It'll have to be perked, or almost nobody will drive the Panzer anymore.

This is going to be interesting.  I used to be in a love/hate relationship with the T34, but recently been forgetting the hate part and I really enjoy getting out there and mixing it up.  I had probably 300 kills last month in the current T34, probably over half of them against aircraft both in the air and trying to take off.  The new model will be a holy terror against air bases now.  I can hardly wait.