Run your car on water??????

[CAP1]

would be all over them like a Nigerian on an eBay newbie.

not sure,,,,,,,but THAT seems like sig. material!
 

[vorticon]

Lets see... so if I fool the oxy sensor so I can run a leaner fuel air mixture...  that would mean I would burn less fuel per revolution of the engine...

meaning you're going to need to run more revolutions to maintain the same power output. if it was as easy as running at less than optimal mix, people would be doing so.

[Bronk]

Lets see... so if I fool the oxy sensor so I can run a leaner fuel air mixture...  that would mean I would burn less fuel per revolution of the engine...

Yea ... but he's replacing it with the hydro. Otherwise it might be to rich.

[Holden McGroin]

meaning you're going to need to run more revolutions to maintain the same power output. if it was as easy as running at less than optimal mix, people would be doing so.

I guess I wont mess with the mixture knob in the Cessna anymore.  It's useless for saving fuel.

[Elfie]

meaning you're going to need to run more revolutions to maintain the same power output. if it was as easy as running at less than optimal mix, people would be doing so.

he's burning less gasoline but replacing the gasoline with hydrogen to maintain the same power.

[vorticon]

he's burning less gasoline but replacing the gasoline with hydrogen to maintain the same power.

yeah i got that bit. i was responding to holden claiming that would be the entire source of the fuel savings.

"I guess I wont mess with the mixture knob in the Cessna anymore.  It's useless for saving fuel."

I may be wrong but...everything i know says you're going to get better mileage by maintaining the right A/F mixture and adjusting the throttle rather than adjusting the A/F mix...not only will there be less potential power from each stroke, you won't burn properly and get even less power.

[CAP1]

meaning you're going to need to run more revolutions to maintain the same power output. if it was as easy as running at less than optimal mix, people would be doing so.

actually, you're not fooling the o2 sensor into tleaning out the mixture.

there's hydrogen AND oxygen being pulled into the engine. thus, there will be a higher than normal oxygen in the exhaust. so what the EIFE does, is to simply re-adjust the readings from the o2 back to where the ECU expects to see them.

 

[CAP1]

I guess I wont mess with the mixture knob in the Cessna anymore.  It's useless for saving fuel.

i'm not sure on this....and i will ask the clubs mechanic tomorrow before i go up........but don't lycomings tend to run overly rich with the mixture full in?

 if so, then when we lean the mixture, we're actually bringing it closer to optimal 14.7 to 1...

 i think

[vorticon]

actually, you're not fooling the o2 sensor into tleaning out the mixture.

there's hydrogen AND oxygen being pulled into the engine. thus, there will be a higher than normal oxygen in the exhaust. so what the EIFE does, is to simply re-adjust the readings from the o2 back to where the ECU expects to see them.

 

again, i understood that part.  i was responding to holdens implication that the fooling of the o2 sensor was what was causing the improvements in mileage.

[Holden McGroin]

again, i understood that part.  i was responding to holdens implication that the fooling of the o2 sensor was what was causing the improvements in mileage.

The following data is from http://www.knfilters.com/airfuelmonitors.htm
               
----------- ECONOMY                BEST ALL-AROUND                   POWER
          Light 1 -Light 2 Light 3 Light 4 Light 5  Light 6 Light 7 Light 8 Light 9 Light 10
Gasoline 17.1    16.0     15.1    14.7    14.7    14.7   14.7     14.0      13.2       12.1
Alcohol   7.6      7.1       6.7     6.5     6.5       6.5    6.5       6.1       5.8         5.3
Propane  17.9    16.8    15.9    15.6    15.6    15.6   15.6     15.0       14.0       13.0

A leaner mixture of 17.1 'economy ratio' vs a 14.7 'best all around' ratio would mean that each displacement of the engine would pull in 1/17.1 vs 1/14.7 or an 16% fuel savings.

If your car was running in the fuel full rich power zone, 1/17 to 1/12 yeilds a 41% fuel burn savings.

41% -- 45% spooky.

Of course pulling a trailer up hill or 0-60 time would be affected.

When you adjust the mixture lean you increase the exhaust gas temperature and begin to make nitogen oxides, a key pollutant that the oxy sensor tries to avoid by keeping out of the lean zone.

Too hot exhaust gas temp can be tough on valves and other parts of the engine.

[CAP1]

The following data is from http://www.knfilters.com/airfuelmonitors.htm
               
----------- ECONOMY                BEST ALL-AROUND                   POWER
          Light 1 -Light 2 Light 3 Light 4 Light 5  Light 6 Light 7 Light 8 Light 9 Light 10
Gasoline 17.1    16.0     15.1    14.7    14.7    14.7   14.7     14.0      13.2       12.1
Alcohol   7.6      7.1       6.7     6.5     6.5       6.5    6.5       6.1       5.8         5.3
Propane  17.9    16.8    15.9    15.6    15.6    15.6   15.6     15.0       14.0       13.0

A leaner mixture of 17.1 'economy ratio' vs a 14.7 'best all around' ratio would mean that each displacement of the engine would pull in 1/17.1 vs 1/14.7 or an 16% fuel savings.

If your car was running in the fuel full rich power zone, 1/17 to 1/12 yeilds a 41% fuel burn savings.

41% -- 45% spooky.

Of course pulling a trailer up hill or 0-60 time would be affected.

When you adjust the mixture lean you increase the exhaust gas temperature and begin to make nitogen oxides, a key pollutant that the oxy sensor tries to avoid by keeping out of the lean zone.

Too hot exhaust gas temp can be tough on valves and other parts of the engine.

on most cars, the o2 sensor has nothing to do with oxides of nitrogen.

they're controlled by the egr systems, or by three way catalytic converters.

[RTHolmes]

quick question - about how much of the water/electrolyte mixture is used per mile?

(its probably been mentioned already but over 250 posts...)

[vorticon]

The following data is from http://www.knfilters.com/airfuelmonitors.htm
               
----------- ECONOMY                BEST ALL-AROUND                   POWER
          Light 1 -Light 2 Light 3 Light 4 Light 5  Light 6 Light 7 Light 8 Light 9 Light 10
Gasoline 17.1    16.0     15.1    14.7    14.7    14.7   14.7     14.0      13.2       12.1
Alcohol   7.6      7.1       6.7     6.5     6.5       6.5    6.5       6.1       5.8         5.3
Propane  17.9    16.8    15.9    15.6    15.6    15.6   15.6     15.0       14.0       13.0

A leaner mixture of 17.1 'economy ratio' vs a 14.7 'best all around' ratio would mean that each displacement of the engine would pull in 1/17.1 vs 1/14.7 or an 16% fuel savings.

If your car was running in the fuel full rich power zone, 1/17 to 1/12 yeilds a 41% fuel burn savings.

41% -- 45% spooky.

Of course pulling a trailer up hill or 0-60 time would be affected.

When you adjust the mixture lean you increase the exhaust gas temperature and begin to make nitogen oxides, a key pollutant that the oxy sensor tries to avoid by keeping out of the lean zone.

Too hot exhaust gas temp can be tough on valves and other parts of the engine.

can't argue with that. further looking into (not easy, everything i found was on forums or sites of people trying to sell me something) it says it would only be useful (or safe) for cruising. even if it is the entire cause for his noticed improvements, his HHO setup supposedly decreases engine temperatures, this would make it safer for him to run a leaner mix.

[Hornet33]

quick question - about how much of the water/electrolyte mixture is used per mile?

(its probably been mentioned already but over 250 posts...)

You might need to add around 1/2 liter a month. The water level in mine has only dropped about 6ml since I installed it, but I also have an automatic refill tank on mine so when the booster cools down and creates a negative pressure in the chamber it sucks fresh refill water from the tank through a one way valve. I used a plastic lab container that has ml messurements on the side, and so far I'm down by 6ml on the tank.

So water/mix per mile used is so small it really can't be messured.

[RTHolmes]

ty, I only ask because I was thinking about the maintenance issue for universal adoption. assuming (big assumption here ) that you do pretty average yearly mileage, a 10l tank would last a year so could be refilled at service time (or DIY if you like) so maybe not such a big issue. if it runs low it would be pretty trivial for the ECU to switch to a more conventional setting until its topped up again.