John Glenn said this....

[CavPuke]

We were involved in Indochina long before Kennedy was president.  Uncle Ho actively aided the Allied effort against the Imperial Japanese forces in the region.  President Truman basically underwrote a great part of the French's effort to reclaim Indochina due to the "Red Scare". The first U.S. administration to actually assign military advisers to the RVN was President Eisenhower a Republican.

"In 1955, the first U.S. military advisers arrived in Vietnam. President Dwight D. Eisenhower justified this decision on the basis of the domino theory--that the loss of a strategic ally in Southeast Asia would result in the loss of others. "You have a row of dominoes set up," he said, "you knock the first one, and others will fall.” President Eisenhower felt that with U.S. help, South Vietnam could maintain its independence."

Here is the source http://www.digitalhistory.uh.edu/database/article_display.cfm?HHID=517

[AKIron]

If you won't accept the facts as stated in the original post without quibbling over technicalities you certainly cannot claim Bush got us into Iraq.

[Holden McGroin]

CS gas is not known to have caused any deaths or permanent injuries, however its use has been banned in some American military operations

"Police and Security News" states: "In a confined space, CS can readily induce panic behavior if the adversary is unable to escape the contaminated area." According to a handbook called the "Police Chemical Agents Manual," during exposure to CS a person is "incapable of effective concerted action." Toxicologists describe the effects of CS as incapacitating, and certainly not the agent of choice if a fire is anticipated.

there are at least two reasons why CS probably did not worsen the situation during the seige. First, on the day tear gas was deployed there was a steady 17 to 24 mph wind, which, combined with gaping holes in the compound made by the tanks, created a situation where much of the tear gas was blown away. Second, there was a supply of gas masks inside the comound, some of which were used by the Davidians during the seige. A fire report written by Texas-based investigators called the tear gas operation a failure.

Sources:

"Police Chemical Agents Manual" written by Thompson S. Crockett

"Police and Security News" May/June 1988, article by William E. Burroughs, Staff Instructor, Smith & Wesson Academy.

Fire Investigation Report, Branch Davidian Compound, Waco TX, report date July 13, 1993 by Paul C. Gray et al.

They used a flammable form of military CS, that when ignited, released HCN.

They also used diesel fuel in the tanks, fuel which when burned can form carbon monoxide, a deadly poison.  Is it your position that the authorities then used carbon monoxide against the davidians?

[007Rusty]

                                                                         

[AKIron]

They also used diesel fuel in the tanks, fuel which when burned can form carbon monoxide, a deadly poison.  Is it your position that the authorities then used carbon monoxide against the davidians?

I think the bullets they fired blindly into the compound were a lot more likely to kill men, women, and children than the diesel fuel.

[Holden McGroin]

I think the bullets they fired blindly into the compound were a lot more likely to kill men, women, and children than the diesel fuel.

I would agree.

I think however that the CS they used was an attempt to have the BD's evacuate the compound rather that poison them.  The fact that they did it poorly and caused death was due to incompetance, not design.

[AKIron]

I would agree.

I think however that the CS they used was an attempt to have the BD's evacuate the compound rather that poison them.  The fact that they did it poorly and caused death was due to incompetance, not design.

I'm inclined to agree that the final assault was not premeditated mass murder. However, their gross negligence in protecting the lives of the children in that compound led to the same results imo. This entire siege was ill conceived, illegally executed, and falsely reported. I hope it forever weighs heavily on those responsible.

[lyric1]

So, the point is that they never attacked us

Not so German subs had been attacking & sinking US shipping long before the USA entered WW11. In fact US war ships had permission to sink German subs as well before the USA had officially entered the war. So I would say Germany had attacked the USA first.  (EDIT)->After reading all of the thread I see others have pointed out these facts.

[DiabloTX]

I don't know what you could say about a day in which you have seen four beautiful sunsets.

I sort of like that John Glenn quote the best.

[Angus]

First, FDR was a fascist.  His ideals were exactly the same as Hitler and Mussolini, (minus the jew killing, as I've stated before).

Next, the brits were helping India in their attempts to fight Japan before USA got involved.

The French Conflict was quite different from the American Conflict with vietnam.  Vietnam was fighting with the French for total independence.  America was fighting with North Vietnam for south vietnam's freedom from communism.  Both wars were botched.

The USA was also involved with pressing down Japan's power before being attacked, and that may be the reason behind it. As for FDR, I guess I see him completely different. Were his ideals conquest and domination?

[lasersailor184]

The USA was also involved with pressing down Japan's power before being attacked, and that may be the reason behind it. As for FDR, I guess I see him completely different. Were his ideals conquest and domination?

His ideals were conquest and domination of the American people.  Up until then, most americans were still rather independent minded.

[Angus]

WOOT?
Next thing you'll tell me is that Abe Lincoln was the first Fascist....

[lasersailor184]

WOOT?
Next thing you'll tell me is that Abe Lincoln was the first Fascist....

I would say he was the first totalitarian president.  But that wouldn't be true.

[Saxman]

Funny how no one likes to remember that technically Lincoln's decision to use military force to prevent the southern secession was against the law....

 

[Angus]

Lincoln = the guy who ended slavery in the USA
FDR = the guy who used public initiative to end the great depression

Awful guys...awful....