John Glenn said this....

[Saxman]

It seems to me that FDR-bashing in a Conservative right of initiation. You're not a true Conservative if you don't believe FDR is the spawn of Satan.

[Ack-Ack]

The one about the Vietnam war starting in 1963 was one as well. We had Special Forces' A-teams in Laos and Vietnam as early as 1959.

We also had CIA pilots flying supplies to the French at Dien Bien Phu, lost a few in the process.


ack-ack

[AKIron]

Kennedy could have shut down our support to South Vietnam. Instead, he turned it into a real war. It has been reported that he had second thoughts and was going to shut it down. It has been speculated that this angered LBJ to the point of having Kennedy assasinated. Not a far fetched theory imo.

[Cthulhu]

It seems to me that FDR-bashing in a Conservative right of initiation. You're not a true Conservative if you don't believe FDR is the spawn of Satan.

Spawn of Satan?... No. But a politician who had grown a little too powerful?... Yes. I don't begrudge him for his New Deal policies, that's what Democrats do. I do however have a problem with him attempting to pack the Supreme Court with six additional justices in an effort to thwart the existing nine justices who unanimously ruled three times against FDR and his New Deal. Suddenly, the non-political branch of the federal government was caught up in an intense and bitter national political debate. The Supreme Court would never be the same again.

FDR was the one who started this nonsense. Judges should not be political.

[Angus]

I'll add a feather in FDR's hat with his sense of realism regarding Facsism/Nazizm, for he had to fight against quite some odds for the USA to stick to the Brits rather than...testing out how that bearded guy in Germany would work out....

[FrodeMk3]

His ideals were conquest and domination of the American people.  Up until then, most americans were still rather independent minded.

I would ask you this, LS. If what you've said about FDR was true, then how come he didn't simply do so during the Great Depression?

The collapse of the US stock market in 1929 led to a worldwide economic depression called the Great Depression in the United States.

The "Black Tuesday" stock market crash of October 29, 1929, marked the beginning of a decade of high unemployment, poverty, low profits, deflation and lost opportunities for economic growth and personal advancement. Although the causes of the Great Depression are still uncertain, the basic cause owas a sudden loss of confidence in the economic future (hence the decline in stocks.) Many economists agree with Milton Friedman's argument that blames the length of the depression (but not its cause) on an unwillingness by the Federal Reserve System to help banks avoid runs on their deposits. The traditional explanation of a combination of high consumer and business debt, ill-regulated markets that permitted malfeasance by banks and investors, growing wealth inequality, and natural disasters such as the Dust Bowl and 1926 Miami Hurricane creating a downward economic spiral of reduced spending and production are also offered as alternative explanations. The depression was a worldwide phenomenon, and was worse in some countries such as Germany; it apparently began in the U.S.

The initial government response to the crisis exacerbated the situation; protectionist policies like the Smoot-Hawley Tariff of 1930, rather than helping the economy, merely strangled global trade. Industries that suffered the most included agriculture, mining, and logging.

The depression caused major political changes, the most notable among them being the New Deal, which instituted large-scale federal relief programs aimed to aid the agricultural industry and support labor unions. The formation of the New Deal coalition by Franklin Delano Roosevelt was another notable accomplishment. This disaster had a profound effect on the psychology of an entire generation and strongly influenced the development of post-war monetary institutions.

Contents [hide]
1 Causes
2 Hoovervilles
3 New Deal
4 Recession of 1937
5 Afterwards
6 See also
7 References
8 Further reading
 


[edit] Causes
 
USA GDP annual pattern and long-term trend, 1920-40, in billionsMain article: Causes of the Great Depression
Current theories may be broadly classified into two main points of view. First, there is orthodox classical economics, monetarist, Keynesian, Austrian Economics and neoclassical economic theory, which focuses on the macroeconomic effects of money supply, including Mass production and consumption. Second, there are structural theories, including those of institutional economics, that point to underconsumption and over-investment (economic bubble), or to malfeasance by bankers and industrialists.

There are multiple originating issues: what factors set off the first downturn in 1929, what structural weaknesses and specific events turned it into a major depression, how the downturn spread from country to country, and why the economic recovery was so prolonged.

In terms of the initial 1931 downturn, historians emphasize structural factors and the stock market crash, while economists point to Britain's decision to return to the Gold Standard at pre-World War I parities ($10.98 Pound)[1]. The vast economic cost of World War I weakened the ability of the world to respond to a major crisis.

Economists dispute how much weight to give the stock market crash of October 1929. According to Milton Friedman, "the stock market in 1929 played a role in the initial depression." It clearly changed sentiment about and expectations of the future, shifting the outlook from very positive to negative, with a dampening effect on investment and entrepreneurship, but some feel that an increase in interest rates by the Federal government could have also caused the slow steps into the downturn towards the Great Depression.


[edit] Hoovervilles
Main article: Hoovervilles
A Hooverville was the popular name for a shanty town, examples of which were found in many United States communities during the Great Depression of the 1930s. The word "Hooverville" derives from the name of the President of the United States at the time. These settlements were often formed in unpleasant neighborhoods or desolate areas and consisted of dozens or hundreds of shacks and tents that were temporary residences of those left unemployed and homeless by the Depression. People slept in anything from open piano crates to the ground. Authorities did not officially recognize these Hoovervilles and occasionally removed the occupants for technically trespassing on private lands, but they were frequently tolerated out of necessity. Some of the men who were made to live in these conditions possessed building skills and were able to build their houses out of stone. Most people, however, resorted to building their residences out of box wood, cardboard, and any scraps of metal they could find. Some individuals even lived in water mains. Most of these unemployed residents of the Hoovervilles begged for food from those who had housing during this era. Several other terms came into use during this era, such as "Hoover blanket" (old newspaper used as blanketing) and "Hoover flag" (an empty pocket turned inside out). "Hoover leather" was cardboard used to line a shoe with the sole worn through. A "Hoover wagon" was a car with horses tied to it because the owner could not afford gasoline; in Canada, these were known as Bennett buggies.


[edit] New Deal
Main article: New Deal
From 1933 onward, President Roosevelt argued a reconstruction of the economy would be needed to prevent another, or avoid prolonging the current depression. New Deal programs, such as the National Recovery Administration (NRA), sought to stimulate demand and provide work and relief for the impoverished through increased government spending. Instituting regulations which ended what was called "cut-throat competition," which kept forcing down prices and profits for everyone. (The NRA, which ended in 1935).

Setting minimum prices and wages and competitive conditions in all industries. (NRA)
Encouraging unions that would raise wages, to 93% increase the purchasing power of the working class. (NRA)
Cutting farm production so as to raise prices and make it possible to earn a living in farming (done by the AAA and successor farm programs).
The most controversial aspect of the New Deal agencies was the National Recovery Administration (NRA). It lasted less than a year (1933-34) and ordered:

businesses to work with government to set prices;
the NBA board to set labor codes and standards.
These reforms (together with relief and recover measures) are called by historians the First New Deal. It was centered around the use of an alphabet soup of agencies set up in 1933 and 1934, along with the use of previous agencies such as the Reconstruction Finance Corporation, to regulate and stimulate the economy. By 1935, the "Second New Deal" added social security, a national relief agency (the Works Progress Administration, W.P.A) and, through the National Labor Relations Board, a strong stimulus to the growth of labor unions. Unemployment fell by two-thirds in Roosevelt's first term (from 25% to 9%, 1933 to 1937) but then remained high until 1942.

In 1929, federal expenditures constituted only 3% of the GDP. Between 1933 and 1939, they tripled, but the national debt remained about level at 40% of GNP. (The debt as proportion of GNP rose under Hoover from 20% to 40%; the debt as % of GNP saored during the war years, 1941-45.) After the Recession of 1937 and victories in the 1938 elections, opponents of the New Deal, who called themselves conservatives, formed a bipartisan conservative coalition to stop further expansion of the New Deal and, by 1943, they had abolished all of the relief programs. Socieal Security continued. The New Deal was, and still is, controversial and widely debated. Opinions about the New Deal fall into three basic categories: that it was a total success, that it was helpful then but created repercussions that hurt us today, or that it was a catastrophe for libertarian principles. Democrats and progressives are generally more positive about the New Deal, while Republicans and economic conservatives are generally more negative.

Here's a link to it for further reading.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Depression_in_the_United_States

I personally don't think that someone who's aim was the "conquest and domination" of the American people would have acted this way when he had a perfect oppurtunity to do so.

[Slamfire]

Anyone who thinks FDR wasn't a complete tyrant needs to google "Executive Order 6102".  Wiki it while you're at it too

[FrodeMk3]

Anyone who thinks FDR wasn't a complete tyrant needs to google "Executive Order 6102".  Wiki it while you're at it too

Here's the Wiki quote:

Executive Order 6102 is an Executive Order signed on April 5, 1933 by U.S. President Franklin D. Roosevelt "Forbiding the Hoarding of Gold Coin, Gold Bullion, and Gold Certificates." It required all persons to deliver on or before May 1, 1933 all gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates owned by them to the Federal Reserve. Under the Trading With the Enemy Act of October 6, 1917, as amended on March 9, 1933, violation of Executive Order 6102 was punishable by fine up to $10,000 ($166,640 if adjusted for inflation as of 2008) or up to ten years in prison, or both. Because of this forced immediate sale of gold to the Federal Reserve at the government set price of $20.67 per ounce, this Executive Order is often referred to as the Gold Confiscation of 1933. Shortly after this forced sale, the price of gold from the treasury for international transactions was raised to $35 an ounce; the U.S. government thereby devalued the U.S. dollar by 41%.

In 1931 the Bank of England was forced off the gold standard as depositors demanded conversion of their notes to gold, threatening insolvency of the Bank. This pattern was repeated throughout Europe, and subsequently speculators targeted the United States' gold reserves, converting US dollars to gold, causing tremendous gold outflow, worsening deflation, and threatening the solvency of the United States' reserve. In February and March 1933, bank panics led people in the US to hoarding gold coins as suspicion about banks devolved into distrust of paper money, further worsening these same economic pressures. Before Britain left the gold standard, the Federal Reserve's own reserve ratio was 81.4%; by March 1933 it had fallen to 51.3%.

Shortly after taking office, in March and April 1933 Roosevelt implemented a series of policies to combat the crisis of solvency of the US monetary and banking systems, including Executive Order 6073, the Emergency Banking Act, Executive Order 6102, Executive Order 6111, and later the Agricultural Adjustment Act, 1933 Banking Act and HJR-192. These acts and executive orders effectively suspended the gold standard in the United States [1][2].

Order 6102 specifically exempted "customary use in industry, profession or art"--a provision that covered artists, jewelers, dentists, and electricians among others. The order further permitted any person to own up to $100 in gold coins (a face value equivalent to five troy ounces of Gold). Nevertheless, anecdotal accounts later related that many persons who possessed large amounts of gold simply ignored the order and hid their gold until the Order ceased to be in effect.[

I would say that it was an emergency move to help combat the Depression. It doesn't even seem to be a drop in the bucket compared to the Patriot Act.

[crockett]

Which first 5 words? These?

John Glenn (DEMOCRAT) said this

<edit>

I was addressing a broader rebuttal, not your specific post though I fail to see how there is not a direct correlation between Saddam and Adolf.

Then you should also take a look at history. Hitler declared war on the US as was sinking US ships long before the US attacked Germany. In fact it's that sole reason I'd be willing to be that made Germany the immediate target because they were affecting our trade lanes.

[DREDIOCK]

Lincoln = the guy who ended slavery in the USA

"If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that." -Abraham Lincoln

[ROX]

Lots of truth in the original post.

The other sides #1 gambit:  Downplay the person...pray most people were asleep in history class.

I wouldn't say Korea was an officially declared war.  It was termed a UN "Police Action".  That being the case the first Gulf War under GHWB would be termed the same.




ROX

[Torque]

minh's letter to truman make it pretty clear... vietnam was about oil, rubber and tin... and keeping control of those resources out of hands of brown people.

[lasersailor184]

Lincoln = the guy who ended slavery in the USA
FDR = the guy who used public initiative to end the great depression

Awful guys...awful....

Lincoln bumbled his way through the civil war, and eventually ended slavery after violating practically all the principles that Americans hold dear.

FDR bumbled his way through the depression, enacting totalitarian plans that repeatedly made the depression worse in the process holding off economic success.  The ONLY reason we came out of the depression was that he was lucky enough that America got attacked.  It would have not ended for years to come.



As for his conquests?  The answer is really simple.  Look up what Hitler and Mussolini did.  When you see that FDR acted exactly the same as the two "Most evil people" from that time period, the only conclusion you can come to is that FDR was also one of the most evil people from that time period.

[Yeager]

Here's the Wiki quote:

I would say that it was an emergency move to help combat the Depression. It doesn't even seem to be a drop in the bucket compared to the Patriot Act.

the patriot act is not an executive order.  You know this, right?

The patriot act is the will of the people created through a representative congress, signed into law by the duly elected president, and judged by the judiciary for right and wrong.  Might as well see it for what it truly is, I guess.

[Yeager]

minh's letter to truman make it pretty clear... vietnam was about oil, rubber and tin... and keeping control of those resources out of hands of brown people.

any particular letter or one specifiaclly? 

Does Vietnam currently supply any of these things, rubber, oil and tin, to the global marketplace in any reasonable quantity?