Author Topic: why is weed illigal???  (Read 5098 times)

Offline ian5440

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Re: why is weed illigal???
« Reply #75 on: August 05, 2008, 02:23:32 PM »
Is this kid on crack?  I mean seriously!

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Offline bongaroo

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Re: why is weed illigal???
« Reply #76 on: August 05, 2008, 02:31:04 PM »
It is correct that you may be around people who smoke pot daily and you will never know it.  You will just think they are stupid with personality flaws.  If you were to see the same people after they had quit pot for a few years you would indeed see a difference.

I agree with the cop.. they are very little risk so far as violence unless..   you call running over people or getting into massive wrecks or killing people with machinery "violence"   Crane operator on pot killed 4 guys and injured 6 once where I worked.. he was so stoned on pot he could hardly make sentences.

I think it should be free and legal but I don't want to share the road with em..  tests have shown that they do no better in driving skill than drunks.   

I don't want to work with em where there is equipment.  They can work at some office job where the worst they can do is staple themselves to the papers.

lazs

Who let that guy at the controls of a crane if he was having trouble completing sentences?  If he was only smoking pot he would have been passed out with a bag of chips.  Take some advice from someone with more experience in this regards; sounds more like meth.  I'm sure his drug tests came back with THC but thats about the only drug that stays in your system more than a day.  It's fat soluble.

Tests have also shown people on cell phones are just as if not more likely to cause accidents than someone with a .08 blood alcohol content but we haven't banned them while driving yet.

Glad to see you agree on the legalization part.
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Offline Zazen13

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Re: why is weed illigal???
« Reply #77 on: August 05, 2008, 02:57:07 PM »
Oh dear, I was a card carrying member of NORML for years. I also worked in a pharmaceutical research laboratory where we were conducting extensive research on various drugs and their affect on human  behavior and brain chemistry. I had access to restricted Government and private research reports and data on Marijuana (I cannot disclose specific data). <If you do not enjoy my comprehensive posts stop reading now.>

Marijuana is in fact considered a hallucinogen and a barbiturate (due to its effects rather than its actual chemical composition). The THC content largely determines its hallucinogenic effect, but the most powerful marijuana doesn't even compare to weakest concentrations of LSD-25 or mescalin. Marijuana, unlike almost every other drug is a victim of a property implied by one of its names, "weed". It can grow almost anywhere and can flower several times a year in a wide variety of soils and climates. It is one of the few vegetable based narcotics that can be grown casually by private citizens in sizeable quantities. As Skyrock pointed out, Marijuana criminalization was used as a tool to further politically motivated restrictive government immigration and deportation policies against Hispanics. Later enforcement, especially in the deep south and inner cities, used marijuana criminalization to target African-Americans.

There is proof that like cigarettes, raw, unprocessed Marijuana vegetable matter contains carcinogens, free radicals and tar. But, 75% of smoked marijuana is unfiltered, unlike cigarettes. If commercially produced in the same fashion as cigarettes but without all the extra chemicals tobacco companies add to their products, it would be a much lesser source of cancer causing agents. There is some very strong evidence that Marijuana use does temporarily  deleteriously effect short-term memory, cognitive reasoning and fine motor control, much like alcohol use. However, unlike alcohol, other than simply the fact that you are smoking unprocessed, unfiltered vegetable matter, the active ingredients have no permanent adverse affects on any organ or system in the human body. Marijuana is not a poison like alcohol which is the reason there is no "hang-over".

From a behavioral perspective Marijuana and alcohol have much less in common. Alcohol's "intoxicating" effect is mostly a result of the altering of a brain region called the reticular formation. This part of the brain is responsible (among other things) for filtering sensory input. It throws out sensory information it deems "unimportant" only allowing the important stuff to pass though it to other parts of the brain. For example, I am wearing socks right now, but unless I choose to focus my attention on them my reticular formation filters out the "feel" of them on my feet and ankles. So, if the reticular formation is a filter allowing only important sensory input to pass through, alcohol clogs the filter. More and more sensory input is discarded as irrelevant in proportion to the level of alcohol in the blood to the point where the user passes out in blackout fashion. During the latter phases of acute alcohol intoxication no sensory input is recorded at all in the memory as it has all been discarded. I am sure no one needs any explanation or examples of how dangerous that could be in many situations.

Marijuana, although it's a lot harder to isolate particular brain regions affected, has almost the entirely opposite effect. Marijuana actually increases both the acuity of the senses and the actions of them, in terms of associations derived by their interpretation, in the brain. To put this another way, it creates a connectedness between sensory perception, memory and cognitive thought that expands awareness of the single object of attention in a multifaceted way incorporating both left and right hemispheres. The problem with this, and why marijuana intoxication is dangerous to operate a motor vehicle on, is because this increased brain activity focused upon a single object of attention takes away from "peripheral" awareness of everything else around you. Your situational awareness, as it were, is reduced to the point of nonexistence as you can focus extremely intently but on only one object at a time.

The other necessary comparison between alcohol and marijuana is its affect on the emotional state or mood. Both, have an euphoric effect, but the euphoria of alcohol is relatively short-lived compared to the length and extent of intoxication. After a certain point the euphoria wears off and the misinterpretation of improperly filtered information allows for extreme, if not violent, expressions of uninhibited emotional behavior. As intoxication wears off the lower alcohol level in the blood stream in the brain depresses mood creating an anti-euphoria state further exacerbating wavering emotional stability.

Marijuana has a much longer lasting Euphoric period. It can be as long as the intoxicated feeling itself and is rarely associated with a "crashing" of mood as the level of THC affecting the brain subsides. Rather than information being over-filtered, marijuana actually deepens the interpretation of information increasing its impact on emotions. This is why a funny joke on marijuana is hilarious to the point a wetting oneself, whereas normally it would just be worth a chuckle. This is true of any interpretation, a sad movie while intoxicated by marijuana may make a grown man weep openly when he would not otherwise shed a tear. So, it is far less likely for someone intoxicated by marijuana to display negative emotions or violence as the experience of profound empathy has the opposite effect of alcohol induced sensory distortion and misinterpretation.

There was a recent study done by British researchers that indicated marijuana if used habitually by those with psychiatric problems could increase the chance of them becoming acutely symptomatic. It even seemed to indicate that those with no diagnosed psychiatric ailment, but were predisposed in some previously unknown way, were more inclined to manifest that condition after prolonged habitual use. There was no evidence to support the degradation of mental stability in those considered "normal" though. So, I guess from that one could say, based on this research, habitual marijuana use is definitely not going be recommended for everyone, but then again no drug is.

There are many reasons marijuana remains illegal, take it from someone who has read Government reports on the subject, very few of the reasons are specifically in the, "best interests of the citizenry". I will just list some here...

1) Possibly lowers worker productivity, unlike the stimulating effect of nicotine.
2) Is far too easy to grow and cultivate, therefore regulate and tax.
3) Concentrations of the psychoactive substance THC varies widely therefore has unpredictable effects.
4) In its raw form it can cause cancer.
5) It is extremely cheap to produce and process so even if taxed market forces would make it relatively economically insignificant.
6) Govt seizure of private property indirectly associated with marijuana indictments exceeds the street value of the drug seized itself more than 100 fold.
7) Some conclude that anyone who would smoke a joint today would likely shoot up heroin tomorrow...the "Escalating drug use pattern theory".



« Last Edit: August 05, 2008, 04:16:03 PM by Zazen13 »
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Online DmonSlyr

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Re: why is weed illigal???
« Reply #78 on: August 05, 2008, 03:20:57 PM »
damn zaz you are genius!! But I don't understand how it would be hard to tax, because i can go to pike and BUY a plant with tax. so if it were to become legal make it like 5 dollars for 2 grams of weed with no seeds. people are lazy, they would rather go out and buy a blunt rather then grow it themselves. Look at cigarettes that's a plant, and look how much money they make each year off tax. I mean weed to me just doesn't seem bad at all, all it does is take the stress you have and makes you not worry about it for an hour out of your day. I don't understand why the government has to ruin someones life because of a gram or 2 of weed. I mean it grows on the ground, how can something that grows be illegal that does not make since. also its legal in other European countries. how are crime and accidents compared over there compared to here?
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Offline nirvana

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Re: why is weed illigal???
« Reply #79 on: August 05, 2008, 03:26:24 PM »
I don't understand why you need to smoke something to relieve your stress.



Oh and to answer your question, because it's icky.
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Offline Zazen13

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Re: why is weed illigal???
« Reply #80 on: August 05, 2008, 03:43:28 PM »
damn zaz you are genius!! But I don't understand how it would be hard to tax, because i can go to pike and BUY a plant with tax. so if it were to become legal make it like 5 dollars for 2 grams of weed with no seeds. people are lazy, they would rather go out and buy a blunt rather then grow it themselves. Look at cigarettes that's a plant, and look how much money they make each year off tax. I mean weed to me just doesn't seem bad at all, all it does is take the stress you have and makes you not worry about it for an hour out of your day. I don't understand why the government has to ruin someones life because of a gram or 2 of weed. I mean it grows on the ground, how can something that grows be illegal that does not make since. also its legal in other European countries. how are crime and accidents compared over there compared to here?

It would be hard to tax for a  few reasons:

1) Unlike refining tobacco or alcohol, refining marijuana to make it fit for consumption is simple, anyone can do it, so many will.

2) The THC molecule is highly complex and hard to measure and keep at a constant concentration even when comparing production from the same plant. Therefore, unlike alcohol where you have a pricing structure based on alcohol per unit volume, THC concentration would be highly variable even within the same crop making pricing and taxing problematic.

3) Unless the government price-fixed it, commercially produced marijuana would quickly become so inexpensive the taxes levied would have to be increased far beyond the price of the product itself to even make it cost-effective to regulate. If that happens people will just grow it themselves for free instead of paying relatively exorbitant taxes on it.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2008, 03:57:38 PM by Zazen13 »
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Offline nirvana

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Re: why is weed illigal???
« Reply #81 on: August 05, 2008, 03:58:22 PM »
To be honest I don't have a problem with people who smoke weed. First off you don't hear about people killing others while driving high. Secondly I have never seen anyone high getting into a bar fight at 2:00 am. Thirdly it is all natural unlike LSD, Crack, Coke, Ice, PCP, Crystal Meth, and Ectasy. With hemp you can make clothes, oil, ropes, etc. I think pot should be legal. It would help take the pressure off law enforcement so they can concentrate on getting harder drugs off the street and it would be a source of tax revenue.

Just my 2 cents.... :D

There's a difference between industrial hemp which contains nearly no THC and recreational hemp which has poor fiber qualities.
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Online DmonSlyr

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Re: why is weed illigal???
« Reply #82 on: August 05, 2008, 04:27:27 PM »
So how can they get away with it in other European countries?? seems like they have no problem at all with weed.

But couldn't they still legalize it and say businesses can still drug test you. That way it still limits the usage.

But weed is something fun to do and it just gives you good feeling for only an hour, I could never see anyone killing anything while on THC cause it gives you such happy feelings and chills you out. I feel that's necessary for most people.
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Offline Zazen13

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Re: why is weed illigal???
« Reply #83 on: August 05, 2008, 04:29:54 PM »
So how can they get away with it in other European countries?? seems like they have no problem at all with weed.

But couldn't they still legalize it and say businesses can still drug test you. That way it still limits the usage.

But weed is something fun to do and it just gives you good feeling for only an hour, I could never see anyone killing anything while on THC cause it gives you such happy feelings and chills you out. I feel that's necessary for most people.

Read, "Brave New World", by Aldous Huxley. You'll love it...;)
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Offline Steve

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Re: why is weed illigal???
« Reply #84 on: August 05, 2008, 04:30:15 PM »
It would be hard to tax for a  few reasons:

1) Unlike refining tobacco or alcohol, refining marijuana to make it fit for consumption is simple, anyone can do it, so many will.


Anyone can grow corn but there is still a nice market for it.
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Offline Zazen13

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Re: why is weed illigal???
« Reply #85 on: August 05, 2008, 04:33:56 PM »
Anyone can grow corn but there is still a nice market for it.

That's a problem of scale. It takes a LOT of corn to feed the country's beef and dairy cattle. Very little corn is actually consumed by humans directly, especially domestically. It would take very little production and land to cultivate enough marijuana to completely satiate domestic demand for it. Therefore, supply would dominate demand, depressing the price...

Corn is actually one of the reasons against developing bio-fuels. There is such a demand of it from the cattle industry it's unbalancing the market to divert production to the bio-fuels industry...
« Last Edit: August 05, 2008, 04:36:56 PM by Zazen13 »
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Offline Steve

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Re: why is weed illigal???
« Reply #86 on: August 05, 2008, 04:35:54 PM »
That's a problem of scale, it takes a LOT of corn to feed the country's beef and dairy cattle. Very little corn is actually consumed by humans, especially domestically. It would take very little production and land to cultivate enough marijuana to completely satiate domestic demand for it. Therefore, supply would dominate demand, depressing the price...

Tomatos are easy to grow. It would take very little production and land to cultivate enough tomatos. There is still a nice market for tomoatos
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Offline Zazen13

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Re: why is weed illigal???
« Reply #87 on: August 05, 2008, 04:42:19 PM »
Tomatos are easy to grow. It would take very little production and land to cultivate enough tomatos. There is still a nice market for tomoatos

Steve, I don't want to turn this into an agricultural symposium. But, again, tomatoes are extremely land intensive to produce, difficult to harvest and very prone to insects, disease and rodents. A very small fraction of them are consumed in their unprocessed form. They also deplete the topsoil so must be rotated with other less lucrative crops. Tomatoes also have a very brief period of edibility. Marijuana on the other hand can be stored almost indefinitely without diminishing the quality further raising the supply vs. demand curve...
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Offline lasersailor184

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Re: why is weed illigal???
« Reply #88 on: August 05, 2008, 04:47:42 PM »
It would be hard to tax for a  few reasons:

1) Unlike refining tobacco or alcohol, refining marijuana to make it fit for consumption is simple, anyone can do it, so many will.

2) The THC molecule is highly complex and hard to measure and keep at a constant concentration even when comparing production from the same plant. Therefore, unlike alcohol where you have a pricing structure based on alcohol per unit volume, THC concentration would be highly variable even within the same crop making pricing and taxing problematic.

3) Unless the government price-fixed it, commercially produced marijuana would quickly become so inexpensive the taxes levied would have to be increased far beyond the price of the product itself to even make it cost-effective to regulate. If that happens people will just grow it themselves for free instead of paying relatively exorbitant taxes on it.

Why bother regulating it / taxing it at all?

Why do people who hate the government, especially taxes, suddenly propose to tax marijuana?
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Offline Zazen13

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Re: why is weed illigal???
« Reply #89 on: August 05, 2008, 04:52:04 PM »
Why bother regulating it / taxing it at all?

Why do people who hate the government, especially taxes, suddenly propose to tax marijuana?

If government could figure out a way to tax the air we breathe they would... ;)

But, seriously, it is the official position of the government to impose "Sin taxes" on purely recreational activities, especially ones that are based on the consumption of substances with no other formally recognized redeeming value. The reasoning is the revenue generated will compensate for future costs associated with potential health and social welfare issues.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2008, 05:05:54 PM by Zazen13 »
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