Author Topic: 50 caliber range (Read 473 times)

minus · « **on:** July 19, 2001, 07:00:00 PM »

HTC is it realy necesery and CORECT have a miracle sniper 50 calibers mounted in planes ??????
they sniping riping off all planes form 800 to 1.0 distance

when many lw planes are PUSHED to shot below 300 becose rof is so low planes can out manover bulet stream ?

is it corect all that ?

to hit something with clasic ground mounted MG at that distance is tricky , dont you think so ????????????????

B52Charlie · « **Reply #1 on:** July 19, 2001, 09:04:00 PM »

LOL, yeah man model every single bullet fired !

Rocket · « **Reply #2 on:** July 19, 2001, 11:20:00 PM »

Charlie every bullet is modeled, drag, weight speed ROF etc.

Search the UBB and you will find many discussions about bullets, bullet dispersion, .50 cal trajectory, .50 cal accuracy distance (which is further than 1000yds).

Salute!
Rocket

Sancho · « **Reply #3 on:** July 19, 2001, 11:41:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by minus:
to hit something with clasic ground mounted MG at that distance is tricky , dont you think so ????????????????

No, M2 50 cal maximum "effective" range is somewhere around 2000 yards. A ground mounted weapon would be even more stable than shooting from an aircraft and hitting a vehicle at 800 to 1000 yards would not be tricky. In the same way, an aircraft flying straight and level 800 yards in front of my plane is an easy target. Now if that aircraft is doing very slight evasive moves as it extends in front of me, the hit percentage goes waaay down to 0% at 800-1000 yards.

minus · « **Reply #4 on:** July 20, 2001, 10:34:00 AM »

well sancho u probably read many war ping literature and spekin to much arounbd beer , but in real life is it noT like this !

2000 yard ???????????????
heh i em sure you experience with real heavy machine guns is not 100 % real , sory

just for people who never hire about my story:

in ex Czekoslovakian country i begin my military carier at 14 years old with military academy after 4 years another higher military schol so I know what is to shot with heavy gun

Yeager · « **Reply #5 on:** July 20, 2001, 10:49:00 AM »

In Kuwaut, american marine recon was filmed under hostile fire using a HUMVEE mounted M2 with standard iron sights to fire from cover behind a large stone wall on a Iraqi position in a very tall tower at over a 3/4 mile distance.

Camera crew filmed multiple rounds impacting the target, silencing Iraqi fire.

We could argue about it in the *virtual* but the M2 Browning 50 cal was and still is an awesome weapon in reality.

How many of those LW cannon are still in use today?

I should add that the marine firing the M2 was using a very disciplined technique when sending the rounds to the target. He only squeezed of a few rounds with each trigger pull. Maybe 3-5 rounds per burst. No sustained fire, only aimed fire.

Yeager

[ 07-20-2001: Message edited by: Yeager ]

batdog · « **Reply #6 on:** July 20, 2001, 11:07:00 AM »

I was a grunt. I fired the .50 cal and I "humped" the hog ie M60. The .50 cal easily has a range of 1000 in fact its main limiation in real life is the human eye. The short burst are used for accuracy and to stall the heating of the barrel. The m60 max effective range was about 1200 I think, been along time.

xBAT

P.S. The .50 IS used for sniper duty as well FYI.

[ 07-20-2001: Message edited by: batdog ]

Fishu · « **Reply #7 on:** July 20, 2001, 12:02:00 PM »

Sancho,

Yup.. go figure whats maximum effective range for 20mm

much better.

MrLars · « **Reply #8 on:** July 20, 2001, 02:09:00 PM »

I shot a lot of M2's in various configs in the Army, depending on the operator, the M2 is deadly acurate out to 1500 yds, add the fact that there are 6 .50's firing in most platforms in AH, I can see an argument for increasing the range of them

SageFIN · « **Reply #9 on:** July 20, 2001, 04:59:00 PM »

There's a voice in my head nagging to me that the 27mm Mauser cannon in the Ef-2000 was in fact pretty much derived from the Mg213 series of cannons. I'm not quite sure whether that is true... can anyone confirm?

And what comes to the .50 cals in AH - well, they're nice, and I sure as hell like them

. If you don't like getting shot down by planes carrying them, how about trying one yourself, get back to them, so to say

.

Yes yes, I understand the people who only like to fly one plane or planes of one affiliation but really, if you feel that you are flying an inferior plane or whatnot, simply switch to better one and see if you can improve

.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #10 on:** July 20, 2001, 05:24:00 PM »

You cannot compare solidly mounted "ground use" post-war M2HB accuracy and range to that of wing munted short barrel WW2 aircraft guns.

Plus all of quoting these huge solid mounted M2HB range and accuracy figures, always say FIRING IN SHORT BURSTS, so even these solid mounted guns are innacurate in anything but a fast burst at long ranges. M2 is great gun but it doesnt escape physical laws. long burst = recoil = less accuracy. Not to mention melting barrel lining. In AH there is no penalty for long burts, no recoil, no modeling of wing flexing which affected accuiracy, and was factor in P51 in one other way at least, for example pilots were warned not to fire their guns at very high speed as the shaking and flexing combined with speed would rip the wings.

Whatever you guys say about supposed 2000yard ranges the real WW2 USAAF pilots Ive read almost if not all all say it was only worth to shoot at about 500yards max at WW2 combat alts.

But youll all disagree im sure.

hehe

Sancho · « **Reply #11 on:** July 20, 2001, 09:47:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by minus:
2000 yard ???????????????
heh i em sure you experience with real heavy machine guns is not 100 % real , sory

I was never a machine gunner, but I've seen the M2 and M240G (the USMC's M60 replacement) fired at many, many machine gun ranges, and have had the opportunity to fire them too. As I recall, 2000 yards is the maximum effective range of the M2 with tripod mount . Now I don't claim anybody can hit with consistency at that distance, and I never said it was possible to hit at 2000 yards in an aircraft. As far as shooting from M2 on the tripod mount, usually, there is an "A gunner" who helps the shooter adjust fire and the shooter has traversing dials to adjust the weapon up/down and side to side with precision. Not spraying, but short bursts. This is what I meant when I said that hitting ground targets (usuall vehicles) at 800 - 1000 yards is definitely possible for it is well withing this gun's range. I was responding to your comment "to hit something with clasic ground mounted MG [like an M2] at that distance [800 to 1000 yards] is tricky , dont you think so ????????????????"

Grunherz is definitely correct in that comparing ground mounted M2s to those mounted in an aircraft is a bad comparison. I'll have to dig up the AAR of a P-51 killing a 109 at 1000-1200 yards. The 109 was straight and level at 30k. That was definitely a *tricky* shot, but it shows what the 50 cal is capable of.

[ 07-20-2001: Message edited by: Sancho ]

Sancho · « **Reply #12 on:** July 20, 2001, 09:52:00 PM »

[double post]

[ 07-20-2001: Message edited by: Sancho ]

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #13 on:** July 21, 2001, 12:37:00 AM »

Sancho at 30K its much more likely as the air is much thinner thus providing less drag.
As the Korean War moved fighting over 40,000ft long range shooting became more practical. But at standard WW2 alts, and even more so at the lower standard AH alts the current US .50 cal has some enhanced capabilities in long range shooting, especially so at lower alts that the real one didnt have. To be honest it doesnt really matter half of time, but when it does happend its especially annoying because its obviously inaccurate.

My personal view is that US .50 cal dont disperse enough at longer ranges. Basically seeing some of the guncam from both AA and AG firing it seems the real bullets wnt all over the place after a short distance. In AH they form a pretty solid pattern till they fall off. Im not sure if the guncam film showed only fighters with the "Box" disperesion pattern, but its not likely.

Anyway its nothing too drastic, but somehow it should be made to encourage the more historic 500yd firing rather than the 700-800 and sometimes longer firing that is quite common today.

Changing dispersion at extreme ranges, introdice recoil and wing flexing, and maybe introducing barrel melting on all MG
to discourage long bursts.

These changes would both make it more realitic and give planes with centrally mounted guns some of the advantages they had in RL. Thus the 109, P38 Yak etc could be better gun platforms as they were said to be.

I donno, nothing too drasic I guess so plz dont bite my head off..

janneh · « **Reply #14 on:** July 21, 2001, 01:25:00 AM »

I've shot AA-machineguns (12.7mm, it makes .50 in cals?) during UN training and I must say it feels little more powerful that common 7.62 machineguns,hehe.
From finnish army home pages:
- 12.7mm
- velocity 850m/sec
- max effective shooting distance:
- airtarget: 1.500 meters (1640 yards)
- groundtarget: 2.000 meters (2187 yards)

These aa-machineguns are very old, not from WWII tho (hehe)... Still shooting distance is very long.What comes to recoil, it's huge! We were learining to fire very fast "snapshots", only 2-3 bullets at time. I must say that shooting with trigger all the way down is true spray and pray. Recoil makes it impossible to aim anything. This machinegun was installed in turret on pasi-apc.

EDIT: One .50cal installed on fighter wing prolly doesn't hit anything (in RL) over 1500 yards, but when there's 8 of them and recoil makes fighter to shake, it's way better possibility to hit.

In AH, I've sprayed and sprayed and best kill I got was from 700 yards. At 1000 yards, you're very lucky to achieve kill, even in jug.

[ 07-21-2001: Message edited by: janneh ]