A reasoned case for adding an Assault Gun to Aces High

[TDeacon]

In my defense, I did a half-hearted Wish List search on this topic, and was unable to find a recent example, so…

Adding an Assault Gun / SPG - type GV might well enhance GV game play.  I suggest something mid-level like a Jagdpanzer IV (75mmL70) or an SU100 (100mmL54), so that it wouldn’t need to be perked.  Note that the SU100 has the same chassis as the T34, and the Jagdpanzer IV the same chassis as the Panzer IV, which might save on development time. 

Strong points compared to typical tank like Panzer IV include a more effective gun, often better frontal armor, and a lower silhouette.  Weak points compared to typical tank like Panzer IV include lack of a turret, so that the gun could only be trained over a limited (15 degree?) frontal arc without turning the entire vehicle.  The vehicle would also be unable to fire effectively from hull-down positions. 

Game play consequences of the above are that the SPG would be advantaged over a tank due to its gun/armor combination, so long as it could keep opponents in its firing arc.  This would be much more practical at longer ranges and when defending.  It would be less practical at shorter ranges and when attacking.  In these latter circumstances; the SPG would need to worry about opponents appearing out of, or moving out of, its firing arc, and would need to move the entire vehicle to compensate.  This not only would typically be vastly more cumbersome than training a turret-mounted weapon, but would tend to force the SPG to keep its engine running, thus making it difficult to detect incoming close-range opponents by sound.  In fact, given how slowly most tracked vehicles turn in AH, the disadvantages of being turretless at short ranges could be so significant, that one could justify a vehicle like a Jagdpanther being un-perked. 

The SPG is thus not only different in appearance from the existing tank set, but would exhibit game-play differences as well. 

I would recommend against an open-topped SPG.  Using such a vehicle would probably be frustrating for players, given the number of times aircraft tend to interfere in a tank battle.  Although the AA vehicles are open-topped, they can at least shoot back, and are typically looking for aerial targets. 

[SmokinLoon]

A gv without a swivel turret is at such a disadvantage in this type of game that it would get sidelined rather quickly.

The StG assualt gun cant do anything the Pzr IV already does.  We're better off with an legit tank destroyer like the M18 or Marder.

Remember, the StG was more of an infatry support weapon, not an anti-armor tool.  We dont have infantry in this game.   

[croduh]

I thought we were going to discuss adding mp40 in the game, now i'm disappointed

[stephen]

Dont appologise for reposting a subject, it only gives the clowns more ammunition.

I think its an awsome idea, you arent the only one that thinks it would be a real  hoot to have an assault gun in the game.
Tactics would have to change, and I think it would provide hours more fun to try to be successfull with a vehicle like this.

[Greebo]

The JagdPanzer IV L70 was a step up from the basic Stug. It had the 70 calibre gun out of the Panther fitted. The basic Panzer IV gun (54 calibre or thereabouts IIRC) had much lower muzzle velocity.

[Rino]

     I think the turretless SPG would be at a huge disadvantage in AH2 as I haven't seen
any vehicles in here that can turn without moving forward or backward.  I think it is
called differential braking and not many vehicles had it. 

     I think it would quickly make trying to acquire targets a very frustrating experience.
Not saying that these vehicles have no use, but the game mechanics limit them
unmercifully.

[TDeacon]

The points made about how difficult it would be to turn such a vehicle are quite valid, and I think I touched on them in my initial proposal. 

However, the turning issue could actually be a good thing.  Since I am proposing an un-perked vehicle, the more significant the turning issue the more powerful the basic vehicle can be without being perked.  As I suggested, perhaps a Jagdpanther?  For those of you new to historical gaming, the Jagdpanther carried the 88mmL71 gun.  Would kind of ruin the gaming experience of the guys who use Tigers however, so probably the Jagdpanther is going too far. 

Tactics with a SPG would probably be to stand back and try to pick off opposing tanks at longer range, or to rely on ambush from carefully chosen positions with limited fields of fire, in order to protect the vehicle from flank shots. 

[angelsandair]

     I think the turretless SPG would be at a huge disadvantage in AH2 as I haven't seen
any vehicles in here that can turn without moving forward or backward.  I think it is
called differential braking and not many vehicles had it. 

     I think it would quickly make trying to acquire targets a very frustrating experience.
Not saying that these vehicles have no use, but the game mechanics limit them
unmercifully.

Just give it a command that they give you while moving and you're not in the driver... Just twist your rudder and the tank moves side to side. Then move the gun X by X or till it stops.


It would be a great solution to a powerful town killer, or even like a Panther, but without a turret like Greebo was saying (so it's like an added bonus without using perkies   )

[goober69]

In my defense, I did a half-hearted Wish List search on this topic, and was unable to find a recent example, so…

Adding an Assault Gun / SPG - type GV might well enhance GV game play.  I suggest something mid-level like a Jagdpanzer IV (75mmL70) or an SU100 (100mmL54), so that it wouldn’t need to be perked.  Note that the SU100 has the same chassis as the T34, and the Jagdpanzer IV the same chassis as the Panzer IV, which might save on development time. 

Strong points compared to typical tank like Panzer IV include a more effective gun, often better frontal armor, and a lower silhouette.  Weak points compared to typical tank like Panzer IV include lack of a turret, so that the gun could only be trained over a limited (15 degree?) frontal arc without turning the entire vehicle.  The vehicle would also be unable to fire effectively from hull-down positions. 

Game play consequences of the above are that the SPG would be advantaged over a tank due to its gun/armor combination, so long as it could keep opponents in its firing arc.  This would be much more practical at longer ranges and when defending.  It would be less practical at shorter ranges and when attacking.  In these latter circumstances; the SPG would need to worry about opponents appearing out of, or moving out of, its firing arc, and would need to move the entire vehicle to compensate.  This not only would typically be vastly more cumbersome than training a turret-mounted weapon, but would tend to force the SPG to keep its engine running, thus making it difficult to detect incoming close-range opponents by sound.  In fact, given how slowly most tracked vehicles turn in AH, the disadvantages of being turretless at short ranges could be so significant, that one could justify a vehicle like a Jagdpanther being un-perked. 

The SPG is thus not only different in appearance from the existing tank set, but would exhibit game-play differences as well. 

I would recommend against an open-topped SPG.  Using such a vehicle would probably be frustrating for players, given the number of times aircraft tend to interfere in a tank battle.  Although the AA vehicles are open-topped, they can at least shoot back, and are typically looking for aerial targets. 

i always thought that mobile artilery would be a good additon to gv.s i dont know which examples to give but they were big guns that could shoot long ranges somewhat similar to the cv's eight inchers. would be nice to spawn 10 miles away and start shelling the town, may make enemey defenders have to break through your lines to destroy your arty. youd definetly need a forward observer though its a big help. and yould need flacks for protection from air and tanks for ground protection. maybe perk the crap out of em too lol

[SKYGUNS]

i always thought that mobile artillery would be a good addition to gv.s i don't know which examples to give but they were big guns that could shoot long ranges somewhat similar to the cv's eight inchers. would be nice to spawn 10 miles away and start shelling the town, may make enemy defenders have to break through your lines to destroy your arty. you'd definitely need a forward observer though its a big help. and you'd need flacks for protection from air and tanks for ground protection. maybe perk the crap out of em too lol

Like this? http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,240675.0.html 






Id love to see some sturm armory added to the game, large guns and differential braking would be great for ambushes and assault.
But lets be honest the Jagpanther would be like trying to kill chuck Norris so i think instead of a jagpanther how about a hetzler.
I probably spelt it wrong but it was a tank specifically meant to ambush and it was equipped with a scope and a remote control machine gun.
Its in the game Company of Heroes if it rings a bell.

 

[trigger2]

I thought we were going to discuss adding mp40 in the game, now i'm disappointed

I KNOW!!
I was like YES!! We're gonna fight to get our tommy gun and an m16  but, pfft... no... more gvs...

I say, it's limited WAY too much in AHII, it'd be picked on, and, almost instantaniously, fill the position of 'left out' 

[Martyn]

Tank Town!
The Stug IV (or even a Stug III) would be cool in Tank Town - until someone creeps up behind it!

[titanic3]

 How bout a Wespe?...

[DPQ5]

I personally say if we have the  it should be perked the same as the firefly due to no turret.

[442w30]

This is a great idea.  Having that gun would be a great defensive tool and not having a turret and relatively weak armor an equalizer.  Tactics oriented players would develop tactics that would allow it to function well for them but because of the limits, not become all conquering.     Well thought out to champion that model.

As much as I like the idea of one of the open topped US TDs in the game, I have to agree that it would become frustrating as they would get turretted as easily as the flaks do.